It's Quiet 18 - Wanna ring the bell?

[oldius]

This is a bloody strange thread.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

I argued he would be slowly introduced to team and there would be a difference in playing for the Argentinian league. Then what happened was we sold Jesus and he was forced into a more significant role, but he still played significantly less than Haaland, who happens to be younger than him, but had more experience than him. I also could not have predicted that he would have played as important a role in the World Cup as he did, which also was an injection of experience and confidence. What will happen is exactly what I predicted: in his second season is when he will get more consistent time and have adapted better

So what you are saying in a nutshell is that you were wrong. Also, he did not play ‘significantly less than Haaland. 49 appearances and 17 goals attest to that. How many times was Erling substituted early? Maybe quite close as regards actual minutes played.

 

[samuelyeboah]

This is a bloody strange thread.

it's not a very good transfer window thusfar.

 

[Roy Munson]

My argument regarding Barcelona B is to show how Pep sees things, not me. And I wasn’t really talking about McAtee either.
But since you mentioned him, claiming that doing well in the Championship means he is tested to work at our level is insane. The level of the Championship is weak. Look what happened when the run away champions Burnley played us. Sheffield United had one tough game in their FA Cup campaign, against Tottenham, which they won 1-0 with their pants in their hands. Against us he couldn’t play— would have been good for experience.
Do we ever sign Championship players for our first team? Does any big 6 team for that matter?
And we should clarify that it took McAtee a few months to start playing well in the Championship too. It’s natural, not blaming him. Also, have heard from SU fans who like him a lot and wish he’d stay because they don’t think he’s even ready for our bench yet.
Saying all this is to temper expectations. Don’t be shocked if the outcome of our preseason is that he doesn’t stay beyond

I think you're missing the point. Nobody is arguing that McAtee, Palmer, Bobb etc. are going to come in and play 25 games a season and be pivotal players.

The argument has always been that we have 4 or 5 young players who are ready to be part of the first team squad because they're easily talented enough to have a decent impact.

We are reaching the point where replacing a 32- year-old Mahrez, who'd clearly lost interest by the end of the season, shouldn't necessitate an huge investment on a ready made player.

It fascinates me to see some of our 'fans' look at a player like Saka, and judge him as a world- beating, £100m genius, despite him winning fuck all of note and going missing against any half decent defender and then look at one of our own, such as McAtee, and dismiss him as nowhere near good enough to play 10-15 games for us.

If any club other than us paid the quoted £30m fee for a talent comparable to McAtee, you know as well as I that their fans and the media would be hyping the kid as world class. This is where the 'shiny toy' issue raises its head.

And while you're correct that the Championship is weak compared to the Premier League (though I'd argue both Burnley and Sheffield United would finish mid-table in any other league in Europe), there's a good reason why we send our players there. It's incredibly physical and toughens younger players up. Always has done. I'm sure someone as studious as yourself recalls the countless examples of excellent English talent who've cut their teeth at lower levels.

If you'd paid any real attention to McAtee's time at Sheffield United, you'd have seen his improvement came as soon as he got to grips with the physicality. He was always miles ahead technically.

 

[BrazilianGus]

So what you are saying in a nutshell is that you were wrong. Also, he did not play ‘significantly less than Haaland. 49 appearances and 17 goals attest to that.

Oh yes, I do admit he did better than I expected, but what I am saying is there were factors that contributed to that. Had Jesus stayed would it have been the same? He also did arrive with serious senior experience albeit in Argentina.

How many appearances starting games of those 49? I found a stat that says Haaland played 2777 minutes and Alvarez played 1452.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

But Jesus was sold because we had agreed to sign Alvarez. Don’t particularly want to argue but the fact he was South American footballer of the Year counts for something. In my opinion I think he’s absolutely sensational and would be a first choice for me this year. Also, didn’t Pep say he would be eased in due to commitments in Argentina. Likely he played more than even Pep thought which indicates he is better than you predicted.

 

[Roy Munson]

Doyle was better by all accounts and there's no calls for him to break through?

Not saying there isn't any potential or promise, but I think people need to calm down a bit with him.

Personally I'd prefer another loan for him, because the handful of appearances for us in the early rounds of the cup competitions won't do him as much good as a full season playing IMO.

He really wasn't. He simply adapted more quickly because of a) the role he was asked to play, b) he'd already had Championship experience.

And yet, despite that, McAtee made more appearances and won Sheffield United's Young Player of the Year.

So no, he wasn't better by all accounts really, was he?

And I'm not trying to be arsey about this, fella. But it infuriates me how much we overrate young players at other clubs but consistently underrate our own.

 

[BrazilianGus]

The argument has always been that we have 4 or 5 young

I don’t think it ever gets to 4 or 5

It fascinates me to see some of our 'fans' look at a player like Saka, and judge him as a world- beating, £100m genius, despite him winning fuck all of note and going missing against any half decent defender and then look at one of our own, such as McAtee, and dismiss him as nowhere near good enough to play 10-15 games for us.

It isn’t our fans that rate Saka, it is the world of football that has him in high count, and for a reason. Saka has experience playing the Euros and the World Cup and was a pivotal player in making Arsenal have a PL season no one expected them to have.

We are reaching the point where replacing a 32- year-old Mahrez, who'd clearly lost interest by the end of the season, shouldn't necessitate an huge investment on a ready made player.

We are nowhere near that point. Unless you consider a player in the current senior squad that would open a hole in another position. You can have whatever opinion of Mahrez you want, but he had a hard earned trust of Pep and concrete goal and tactical contributions. The manager we have will not trust that role to a green player. Maybe another would, but he won’t

 

[BrazilianGus]

But Jesus was sold because we had agreed to sign Alvarez. Don’t particularly want to argue but the fact he was South American footballer of the Year counts for something. In my opinion I think he’s absolutely sensational and would be a first choice for me this year. Also, didn’t Pep say he would be eased in due to commitments in Argentina. Likely he played more than even Pep thought which indicates he is better than you predicted.

What Pep said was due to him being coached by Gallardo whom he rates and plays a similar style. I talked about this South American Player of the Year award at the time, it isn’t a particularly significant award looking at who’s won it in the past and where they are today.
Alvarez was bought in January. Jesus left because he decided to leave himself, and made that decision awhile after we signed Alvarez

 

[Roy Munson]

I don’t think it ever gets to 4 or 5


It isn’t our fans that rate Saka, it is the world of football that has him in high count, and for a reason. Saka has experience playing the Euros and the World Cup and was a pivotal player in making Arsenal have a PL season no one expected them to have.

We are nowhere near that point. Unless you consider a player in the current senior squad that would open a hole in another position. You can have whatever opinion of Mahrez you want, but he had a hard earned trust of Pep and concrete goal and tactical contributions. The manager we have will not trust that role to a green player. Maybe another would, but he won’t

I love Mahrez, always will. He was incredibly underrated by far too many City fans. But he clearly didn't have Pep's trust for the vital games at the end of the season. And that, for me, is why it's the right time to let him go.