It's Quiet 18 - Wanna ring the bell?

[Cobwebcat]

I understand him, more than I (only partly) agree with him. And I totally feel for him, I know how much he really believed in Palmer and the expectation he had.

Last summer he went for my throat a bit when I argued Palmer wasn't good enough yet to be expected to make a meaningful contribution to the season, and why I was counting him as a youth player which he was, rather than part of the first team squad. In that 'fair game, honest blue to blue exchange of opinion' way btw which I didn't mind in the slightest. But it was the only time I can remember seeing him get somewhat mildly aggressive over a player or a take, which shows how invested he is in it.

Most of that will be genuinely following and liking the player, but I'd guess a small part will involve wanting to be proven right in some capacity. @twosips only mentioning you out of politeness/respect.

But bigger picture here, ultimately the player wanted out. I kind of changed my stance a fair bit since last summer. I don't doubt his talent, he definitely has potential, and I think with a run of games we would see enough for him to really challenge for a place. I feel the injuries are an easy and exaggerated excuse for why he hasn't featured so much until now, but I certainly felt going forward he had enough for a decent chance now that Mahrez had gone. And I said all summer, against the grain of others desperate for a new winger signing, that I would admire the club if they genuinely gave him a go instead of bringing someone in. But once he made it clear he wanted to leave, and not take a chance here, that was that.

I honestly think the club took so long before properly pursuing Doku, because they were giving Palmer time to come round and want to claim that place. Even giving him starts in two effective finals for silverware. But imo he shat the bed immediately after one of them, by coming out with the whole wanting to leave thing. Minutes after Pep said he would like him to stay but wouldn't stand in his way, Kyle the captain said while standing next to him, that he should just be patient and keep at it, and listen to senior players, and Grealish said he had been through it himself, and he just needed to back himself and be patient. He showed he wasn't patient.

The way I see it, it was only after that the club went after Doku, and for me it was Because Palmer wanted out, rather than the other way round.

I'm a bit disappointed he is leaving, would have been great to see him break through, and I think he could have, even with Doku here. More than that, I'm disappointed he went to Chelsea, for his own sake. But am I disappointed with the fee, and the decision of the club as a reaction to it all? Not in the slightest.

Yes I think City wanted to keep him and it was his decision to leave.I guess sometimes and in his case, I just want them to say “no”

 

[Coatigan]

If it makes people feel any better about letting Palmer go for 45m, Barcelona are letting a 'generational talent' Fati go on loan so they can bring serial underachiever Joao Felix on loan. Yes that's more than a club Barcelona where local academy cules are so so important to other local cules. Talk about shiny new toy syndrome.

 

[Gumzy97]

Don’t get too attached to academy players at this level. Unless they are truly special and make an instant impact with their game time. They will be sold for a good fee it’s a model that continues to work and work well in bringing in income. Chelsea , Madrid and now us are having success with it

A lot of people got attached to Palmer but he’s gone for 45 million, don’t do the same with another you’ll only feel shit when the club sells them.

I see a lot saying about Bobb which I agree he looks a talent. But he will need to make a big impact when given game time a goal/assist is hard to ignore.

Otherwise the same situation that has happened with Palmer will happen with Bobb or any other academy player, if a Dortmund next summer offer 30 to 40 million for Bobb he will be sold unless he’s made a major impact.

It sucks but it’s just how the business model works at this level.

 

[ShaunMCFC]

We can never win! Lol screen grab of Delaney new agenda.

Just to clarify, good old Delaney has said this comment has nothing to do with City selling Palmer.

It’s all just coincidence that he tweeted about clubs selling academy players on the same day City agreed to sell an academy player.

Fucking balloon.

 

[twosips]

I understand him, more than I (only partly) agree with him. And I totally feel for him, I know how much he really believed in Palmer and the expectation he had.

Last summer he went for my throat a bit when I argued Palmer wasn't good enough yet to be expected to make a meaningful contribution to the season, and why I was counting him as a youth player which he was, rather than part of the first team squad. In that 'fair game, honest blue to blue exchange of opinion' way btw which I didn't mind in the slightest. But it was the only time I can remember seeing him get somewhat mildly aggressive over a player or a take, which shows how invested he is in it.

Most of that will be genuinely following and liking the player, but I'd guess a small part will involve wanting to be proven right in some capacity. @twosips only mentioning you out of politeness/respect.

But bigger picture here, ultimately the player wanted out. I kind of changed my stance a fair bit since last summer. I don't doubt his talent, he definitely has potential, and I think with a run of games we would see enough for him to really challenge for a place. I feel the injuries are an easy and exaggerated excuse for why he hasn't featured so much until now, but I certainly felt going forward he had enough for a decent chance now that Mahrez had gone. And I said all summer, against the grain of others desperate for a new winger signing, that I would admire the club if they genuinely gave him a go instead of bringing someone in. But once he made it clear he wanted to leave, and not take a chance here, that was that.

I honestly think the club took so long before properly pursuing Doku, because they were giving Palmer time to come round and want to claim that place. Even giving him starts in two effective finals for silverware. But imo he shat the bed immediately after one of them, by coming out with the whole wanting to leave thing. Minutes after Pep said he would like him to stay but wouldn't stand in his way, Kyle the captain said while standing next to him, that he should just be patient and keep at it, and listen to senior players, and Grealish said he had been through it himself, and he just needed to back himself and be patient. He showed he wasn't patient.

The way I see it, it was only after that the club went after Doku, and for me it was Because Palmer wanted out, rather than the other way round.

I'm a bit disappointed he is leaving, would have been great to see him break through, and I think he could have, even with Doku here. More than that, I'm disappointed he went to Chelsea, for his own sake. But am I disappointed with the fee, and the decision of the club as a reaction to it all? Not in the slightest.

I can't recall that exchange, but I'm sorry if I was defensive. I talk to *a lot* of people online and its very easy to misread the tone of things online. I can only presume if I was a bit aggressive it was for a reason. I usually only am I think someone is being unfair in some way or another...that's not to say I'm right and you were being unfair! Just could be a tone thing that I understood wrongly. Easily happens.

I actually think you're right with that summation of Palmer's chances. I think he's shit the bed himself a bit tbh and I'm exceptionally disappointed. There is as clear as day a squad gap for him and he absolutely should have waited around until at least January to see if it opened up. Lillo returning (his mate apparently), his great early season cameos, and MOTM nonetheless, would have obviously got him some substantial game time with the inevitable injuries. Doku irrelevant IMO. There's just no guarantee that he's ahead of Palmer immediately, and Palmer's advisors should have been telling him that. Doku could find himself sat in the stands for months while he learns what Palmer's taken in over the past few years.

I don't think its fully about wanting to be proven right, though I'm only human so there's a small chance of pride kicking in of course - I hand on heart feel it's just because he is good enough. I feel last season was a ridiculous waste of his time. The left wing nonsense was just that. Nonsense. It clearly knocked his confidence. I understand Pep knows best, obviously, but it was as clear as anything that he wasn't putting him on the left to teach him some lesson, but more just to use him as a body out there. That's fine, as I can admit that he will literally learn lessons either way, but it did feel like it hindered his development.

Was all justified of course as City won the treble, so who cares about Palmer's development. Bigger picture and all that. Rightfully so! But still, we all know what we like in football. We all watch it for different reasons. I love City. Have all my life. I love watching us win something...but the one thing ive realised over the past few years is that I love nothing more than seeing a local lad come through and become part of that. It's the perfect antidote to modern football. It's hard not to feel how much this club has changed at times. They're not the club I grew up watching at Maine Road. That's obviously great for a billion reasons, but you do wanna feel that old school magic at times, and it's why I'm drawn to Foden, Rico, Cole etc.

It does mean more to me if City win with academy lads, and I can't deny that it has begin to bug me a tiny bit recently how much City love telling the media how great it is that they sell off all these lads for good money. I get it, I really do...but it does feel at times a bit too business orientated for me - as a fan! I'm aware they are a business, but ya know. I'm a football fan. I don't care about spreadsheets. Feels a tad soulless bragging about how much they're moving on these young lads who want to play for the first team. I get it, they're still gonna be millionaires and very successful, but I guess I just hoped for the fairytale story with Cole.

I really thought it was possible! I also found the fact that he was clearly a red as a kid but now loves this club (he does, look at all the times he goes and watches them in the away end when he's not in the squad) cos he was here all his life as a dead nice angle. This became his home! He saw the light ha. It was taking a while, but it felt like he'd finally completed his apprenticeship and was set to graduate into a regular player. Finally. Only to then get impatient just at the wrong moment, irk Pep by being so vocal about wanting to leave when he should have listened to the senior players and got his head down, and then go and join Chelsea. Fucking CHELSEA. Honestly, would have felt a lot less painful if it was Brighton.

Anyway. I'm not angry or owt, just disappointed.

 

[Dribble]

Just to clarify, good old Delaney has said this comment has nothing to do with City selling Palmer.

It’s all just coincidence that he tweeted about clubs selling academy players on the same day City agreed to sell an academy player.

Fucking balloon.

This Delooney?

 

[bluenova]

Just to clarify, good old Delaney has said this comment has nothing to do with City selling Palmer.

It’s all just coincidence that he tweeted about clubs selling academy players on the same day City agreed to sell an academy player.

Fucking balloon.

I wouldn't defend Delaney because he's quite clearly one eyed in his criticism, but the point is probably right - I think most of us would rather we didn't have to have a network of clubs and an Academy that is mostly about raising money.

Obviously we need to do this to compete with the ridiculous wealth gap that has arisen since the start of the Premier and Champions Leagues, so I have no issue with it, if it helps put us on a similar financial level as United, Liverpool or Madrid.

However, if we were still outside the top few, would we really think it's a good thing for football if a couple of the biggest clubs were able to dominate at Academy level? We'd certainly not have considered United hoovering up talent across the UK, as they did in the 90s/00s as a good thing.

Ultimately, it is what it is, necessary in the current climate, but it's not objectively good for football.

 

[bluenova]

That's brilliant - although not even putting Phillips down on the team options graphic is brutal.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

I wouldn't defend Delaney because he's quite clearly one eyed in his criticism, but the point is probably right - I think most of us would rather we didn't have to have a network of clubs and an Academy that is mostly about raising money.

Obviously we need to do this to compete with the ridiculous wealth gap that has arisen since the start of the Premier and Champions Leagues, so I have no issue with it, if it helps put us on a similar financial level as United, Liverpool or Madrid.

However, if we were still outside the top few, would we really think it's a good thing for football if a couple of the biggest clubs were able to dominate at Academy level? We'd certainly not have considered United hoovering up talent across the UK, as they did in the 90s/00s as a good thing.

Ultimately, it is what it is, necessary in the current climate, but it's not objectively good for football.

It is a fact that only a tiny proportion of academy players can possibly make the first team so surely it is preferable that they raise money?

 

[Coatigan]

I can't recall that exchange, but I'm sorry if I was defensive. I talk to *a lot* of people online and its very easy to misread the tone of things online. I can only presume if I was a bit aggressive it was for a reason. I usually only am I think someone is being unfair in some way or another...that's not to say I'm right and you were being unfair! Just could be a tone thing that I understood wrongly. Easily happens.

I actually think you're right with that summation of Palmer's chances. I think he's shit the bed himself a bit tbh and I'm exceptionally disappointed. There is as clear as day a squad gap for him and he absolutely should have waited around until at least January to see if it opened up. Lillo returning (his mate apparently), his great early season cameos, and MOTM nonetheless, would have obviously got him some substantial game time with the inevitable injuries. Doku irrelevant IMO. There's just no guarantee that he's ahead of Palmer immediately, and Palmer's advisors should have been telling him that. Doku could find himself sat in the stands for months while he learns what Palmer's taken in over the past few years.

I don't think its fully about wanting to be proven right, though I'm only human so there's a small chance of pride kicking in of course - I hand on heart feel it's just because he is good enough. I feel last season was a ridiculous waste of his time. The left wing nonsense was just that. Nonsense. It clearly knocked his confidence. I understand Pep knows best, obviously, but it was as clear as anything that he wasn't putting him on the left to teach him some lesson, but more just to use him as a body out there. That's fine, as I can admit that he will literally learn lessons either way, but it did feel like it hindered his development.

Was all justified of course as City won the treble, so who cares about Palmer's development. Bigger picture and all that. Rightfully so! But still, we all know what we like in football. We all watch it for different reasons. I love City. Have all my life. I love watching us win something...but the one thing ive realised over the past few years is that I love nothing more than seeing a local lad come through and become part of that. It's the perfect antidote to modern football. It's hard not to feel how much this club has changed at times. They're not the club I grew up watching at Maine Road. That's obviously great for a billion reasons, but you do wanna feel that old school magic at times, and it's why I'm drawn to Foden, Rico, Cole etc.

It does mean more to me if City win with academy lads, and I can't deny that it has begin to bug me a tiny bit recently how much City love telling the media how great it is that they sell off all these lads for good money. I get it, I really do...but it does feel at times a bit too business orientated for me - as a fan! I'm aware they are a business, but ya know. I'm a football fan. I don't care about spreadsheets. Feels a tad soulless bragging about how much they're moving on these young lads who want to play for the first team. I get it, they're still gonna be millionaires and very successful, but I guess I just hoped for the fairytale story with Cole.

I really thought it was possible! I also found the fact that he was clearly a red as a kid but now loves this club (he does, look at all the times he goes and watches them in the away end when he's not in the squad) cos he was here all his life as a dead nice angle. This became his home! He saw the light ha. It was taking a while, but it felt like he'd finally completed his apprenticeship and was set to graduate into a regular player. Finally. Only to then get impatient just at the wrong moment, irk Pep by being so vocal about wanting to leave when he should have listened to the senior players and got his head down, and then go and join Chelsea. Fucking CHELSEA. Honestly, would have felt a lot less painful if it was Brighton.

Anyway. I'm not angry or owt, just disappointed.

Honestly, don't read into it at all, it was just an example of knowing how passionately you feel about Palmer and the academy and nothing more. It was all fair, all friendly, and I was no doubt forceful with my takes too. There is often a backdrop that affects these things too, and the tone is affected by the timing of what else is being said around a post. I find that sometimes, I read a bunch of shite that I don't bother engaging with, then respond to a post that talks half shite half sense like I'm arguing all the amassed shite.

You are bang on with all the rest imo. It is what it is. Take comfort in the fact Rico, who none of us even mentioned here last summer, has come in out of nowhere and won 3 medals, and then gone on to sign a new deal. Maybe that'll be Bobb this year, maybe someone altogether unexpected, or maybe nobody. Maybe some other young player will edge closer incrementally, or maybe someone on loan will mature to do it next year.

On the whole 'being a red as a child or family' etc, I found it being brought up on here as a justification for selling him bizarre. If he was moving there, I could see the relevance in it. He is moving to Chelsea, what fucking difference does that make, he is going for what he thinks is best for his career not because he isn't blue enough.