It's Quiet - a new dawn

[Thaksinssoldier]

So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then?

I get the impression Tosin was acting the dick about the new contract and the club decided to let him rot tbh.

 

[onceabluealways]

I think we're ignoring the point somewhat, regardless if the talent is being picked up, improving etc, there is still a transitional problem. I was with an ex player on Sunday who hit the nail on the head to a degree, his stance was that no manager is going to give these kids a chance unless they're already at the level required, not because the lack of potential but because results dictate weather they keep there job or not.....

Let's see if pep can be as good as his word and get promoting, personally though i can't see it, you listen to the consensus of the fans and it's 'buy, buy, buy', we want ready made success and that means spending, I hope I'm wrong and we see some of this talent being developed in the 1st team squad!

There are pressures but there are also opportunities which Pep seems to have ignored - Huddersfield at home was a prime example - look at the subs he brought on when the game was won. Fernando etc. whenever Garcia has played alongside Fernando he has been the better player. Pep could have quite easily had a few youngsters on the bench that night and brought them on with no real pressure. If we had not been winning comfortably then why the hell would you want to bring Fernando on, he's certainly no game changer.

 

[blueparrot]

The problem with that is Guardiola's job will never be as secure as it is this season.

My biggest gripe with his youth policy to date is that he's stopped players taking loans, only to say midway through the season that he can't trust the kids without them having played in front of big crowds in professional games. So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then? None of them have played a single minute since the January window either, so he could have loaned Gunn & Garcia then too.

According to Henry Winter Maffeo was loaned out after the United game because he played well, but they thought he was caught out of position far too often...so he sent him to his brother's club where he plays as a wingback in a 343 - is that going to help him have better defensive positioning?

A balance can be struck between promoting the kids and buying. RB is the perfect example, we can buy a brilliant first choice RB and have someone like Maffeo come in as understudy, I've just reached the point with Guardiola where he is going to have to start delivering on the academy side or people are going to lose faith in that side of his reputation quite quickly, starting with the kids in the u16's and u18's who are being asked to sign new deals.

Agree with all that, but Spurs is an interesting situation they are now at a point were they need to push on and win something and compete in the c/l. To do that they need to keep their best players and bring quality into their squad that want games, that's going to block their younger players progress and first team chances, which is were we have been the last few years, as have Chelsea. It is true though that Gunn and Garcia would have been better loaned, it worked out for Kane, and playing at a lower level for Alli.

 

[moomba]

So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then?

You don't loan someone out with 6 months left on their contract unless you've given up on them. Gunn was a real head scratcher though, you wonder just how his game could have developed this season.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

The problem with that is Guardiola's job will never be as secure as it is this season.

My biggest gripe with his youth policy to date is that he's stopped players taking loans, only to say midway through the season that he can't trust the kids without them having played in front of big crowds in professional games. So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then? None of them have played a single minute since the January window either, so he could have loaned Gunn & Garcia then too.

According to Henry Winter Maffeo was loaned out after the United game because he played well, but they thought he was caught out of position far too often...so he sent him to his brother's club where he plays as a wingback in a 343 - is that going to help him have better defensive positioning?

A balance can be struck between promoting the kids and buying. RB is the perfect example, we can buy a brilliant first choice RB and have someone like Maffeo come in as understudy, I've just reached the point with Guardiola where he is going to have to start delivering on the academy side or people are going to lose faith in that side of his reputation quite quickly, starting with the kids in the u16's and u18's who are being asked to sign new deals.

He's missed a big opportunity, agreed, but the minimum from the club will be to secure top 4, I personally feel he had the intentions to blood a few but the size of the task has taken him by surprise... it's apparent he is developing control of the club, more so than he ever had at Barca or Bayern, this in itself could create issues further down the line, however, the point is that with that control he will make decisions more pragmatically....

Fielding Fernando over an academy prospect may not make sense initially, it does though financially, especially if we are looking at long term....

If ever a guy deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's pep, let's revisit this in 12 months and hopefully start joining the dots!

 

[domalino]

You don't loan someone out with 6 months left on their contract unless you've given up on them. Gunn was a real head scratcher though, you wonder just how his game could have developed this season.

12 months, I didn't say he should loan Adarabioyo in January. He's clearly made up his mind to leave, at least if he had a decent loan we'd get a better tribunal fee for him when he does go, and hell, he might have even signed a new deal if someone sat down with him and laid out a plan for his future that went beyond "Hang around the first team and play some EDS games every few weeks for the forseeable future".

 

[kenny1312]

I think we're ignoring the point somewhat, regardless if the talent is being picked up, improving etc, there is still a transitional problem. I was with an ex player on Sunday who hit the nail on the head to a degree, his stance was that no manager is going to give these kids a chance unless they're already at the level required, not because the lack of potential but because results dictate weather they keep there job or not.....

Let's see if pep can be as good as his word and get promoting, personally though i can't see it, you listen to the consensus of the fans and it's 'buy, buy, buy', we want ready made success and that means spending, I hope I'm wrong and we see some of this talent being developed in the 1st team squad!

Think another problem is we expect these kids to be ready at 18/19 or even 16/17 in Sancho and Fodens case, when the reality is you have to be one of the best in the world at that age to be playing regularly in a top 4 team.
Most players develop a little slower and are ready at around 23/24 after having 100+ games under their belt. Would Silva have been in our 1st team at 18? I personally doubt it but by the time we bought him at 24 he was ready.
Have we got the patience to let these lads develop with us or do we sell with buy back clauses and let them develop elsewhere?

 

[moomba]

12 months, I didn't say he should loan Adarabioyo in January. He's clearly made up his mind to leave, at least if he had a decent loan we'd get a better tribunal fee for him when he does go, and hell, he might have even signed a new deal if someone sat down with him and laid out a plan for his future that went beyond "Hang around the first team and play some EDS games every few weeks for the forseeable future".

Even 12 months I wouldn't do it. I can see what you're saying about his value if he does play games, also see what you're saying about laying out a plan (something that seems to be lacking at the moment). But I think the best thing for us is him signing a new contract and the best way of doing that is having him around the club.

 

[domalino]

Even 12 months I wouldn't do it. I can see what you're saying about his value if he does play games, also see what you're saying about laying out a plan (something that seems to be lacking at the moment). But I think the best thing for us is him signing a new contract and the best way of doing that is having him around the club.

If anything, I think him being at the club and not even getting close to playing for the last 7 months of his contract was the worst possible way of convincing him to sign a new deal.

Literally anything else would have been better.

Anyway it seems it's all redundant now, all the latest signs point to him being out the door.

 

[waspish]

Err, no. The coaches don't get the money the owners do, and the coaches stop getting to work with a player who they've developed and who they rate. Plus this wasn't a conversation to a newspaper journalist. It was one of their youth coaches on a podcast about GK's talking about GK's including Pickford.

Fair enough you put me right.