Jason Denayer

[billymumphrey]

Yep, some of the finest defenders there has ever been.

Apologies, I think my post was directed more at @Exeter Blue I am here ...

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Desailly - 1.83m
Thuram - 1.85m
Baresi - 1.76m
Puyol - 1.78m
Cannavaro - 1.76m
Maldini - 1.86m

You're missing the point. I'm not trying to borrow from Sir Bedevere:
"Tell me...what do we do witches?"
"Burn them!"
"And what else do we burn apart from witches?"
"Wood?"
"So why do witches burn?"
"[hesitantly].....Erm, because they're made of wood?"

I'm fully aware there've been some great defenders down the years lacking in height, and that the two things are not mutually incompatible, but my concern is that in the ongoing absence of Kompany, City have had a propensity to be bullied at the back at times.
The Premiership is different to football on the continent. The long hoof downfield and death by crossing are still habitual staples of the English game. The rags won 13 titles in 20 years based on a regime of truly evil whipped inswinging crosses that took away all of the opposition's natural defensive advantages, and I think we have struggled at times this season partly due to our lack of physicality. Otamendi fell on his arse looking for cheap free kicks any number of times (and didn't get them of course), Mangala didn't win a header in 90 minutes against Giroud, Huth had a field day when Leicester came to town, Spurs players caused mayhem every time they had a corner or free kick against us at White Hart Lane (from memory they scored one and had one incorrectly disallowed?), and there are other examples. Better organisation and more determination would have helped in such situations, but size was also a factor IMO.
We look more secure when Kompany's there, cos at 6ft 4' he is usually able to dominate, but when he isn't I think we look vulnerable against particular teams. I've no great problem with Denayer being only 6ft, but not when his likely partner is going to be either Otamendi, who's the same height, or a dilettante like John Stones. It's a question of balance and being prepared for all eventualities rather than a direct reflection on Denayer as an individual.

 

[Feed the Elk]

Well said - we only have one 'tall' centre back (aka the injured one) - the others are too short to be effective against a big lump of a centre forward

 

[Credo]

Boateng 1.92m
Alaba 1.75m
Benatia 1.88m

 

[br88]

Well said - we only have one 'tall' centre back (aka the injured one) - the others are too short to be effective against a big lump of a centre forward

It's interesting that Barcelona have only one tall centre back and yet they batter every English club they play.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

It's interesting that Barcelona have only one tall centre back and yet they batter every English club they play.

You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that they have Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and Neymar pinning the opposition to the edge of their 18 yard box for 90% of every game?! I wish I had a penny for everytime someone on BM invokes Barcelona as though they were a rule rather than an exception!

 

[OB1]

You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that they have Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and Neymar pinning the opposition to the edge of their 18 yard box for 90% of every game?! I wish I had a penny for everytime someone on BM invokes Barcelona as though they were a rule rather than an exception!

You do know that Pep's as nervous as you so that's why his teams park themselves at the opponents end of the pitch?

;-)

 

[billymumphrey]

You're missing the point. I'm not trying to borrow from Sir Bedevere:
"Tell me...what do we do witches?"
"Burn them!"
"And what else do we burn apart from witches?"
"Wood?"
"So why do witches burn?"
"[hesitantly].....Erm, because they're made of wood?"

I'm fully aware there've been some great defenders down the years lacking in height, and that the two things are not mutually incompatible, but my concern is that in the ongoing absence of Kompany, City have had a propensity to be bullied at the back at times.
The Premiership is different to football on the continent. The long hoof downfield and death by crossing are still habitual staples of the English game. The rags won 13 titles in 20 years based on a regime of truly evil whipped inswinging crosses that took away all of the opposition's natural defensive advantages, and I think we have struggled at times this season partly due to our lack of physicality. Otamendi fell on his arse looking for cheap free kicks any number of times (and didn't get them of course), Mangala didn't win a header in 90 minutes against Giroud, Huth had a field day when Leicester came to town, Spurs players caused mayhem every time they had a corner or free kick against us at White Hart Lane (from memory they scored one and had one incorrectly disallowed?), and there are other examples. Better organisation and more determination would have helped in such situations, but size was also a factor IMO.
We look more secure when Kompany's there, cos at 6ft 4' he is usually able to dominate, but when he isn't I think we look vulnerable against particular teams. I've no great problem with Denayer being only 6ft, but not when his likely partner is going to be either Otamendi, who's the same height, or a dilettante like John Stones. It's a question of balance and being prepared for all eventualities rather than a direct reflection on Denayer as an individual.

I'm simply questioning the assertion that height = physicality or good defending. It's not as simple as that which is clearly pointed out that some of the best defenders on the last few decades are not tall. Bacary Sagna averages the most aerial duels won per game for us last season. He is 1.76m. Otamendi is a close second. Prevention is better than cure - i would prefer that we get defenders and a system in place that stops crosses coming in, rather then having big units flinging themselves in last ditch challenges.

 

[Bluster]

I'm simply questioning the assertion that height = physicality or good defending. It's not as simple as that which is clearly pointed out that some of the best defenders on the last few decades are not tall. Bacary Sagna averages the most aerial duels won per game for us last season. He is 1.76m. Otamendi is a close second. Prevention is better than cure - i would prefer that we get defenders and a system in place that stops crosses coming in, rather then having big units flinging themselves in last ditch challenges.

If it's an either / or situation then i agree that you are completely right. However, it is fair to say that a tall and excellent centre half is better than a smaller but excellent centre half. Otamendi struggled on a number of occasions against some of the stronger forwards we played last year and Sagna was lucky not to concede apenalty or two when trying to mark Ibrahimovic. If we lose Toure and Bony this year and bring in smaller dynamic full backs we may struggle to defend set pieces especially if Hart stays glued to the goal line.

 

[Neville Kneville]

As a big Denayer fan, I fully concede that he needs to improve aerially to be a top cb.

But so imo does Otamendi. He wins all the easy headers & loses all the hard ones. Imo Denayer is far superior at everything on the ground & should have been at City, being coached & brought through.

Having said that though, the fact it would have been Pellegrini doing the coaching probably means loaning him out was a stroke of genius.