Javi Garcia (continued)

[City_Sean]

can't wait to have him back (which is not something I thought i'd ever type.)

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

We missed him against Chelsea

*runs and hides*

 

[FantasyIreland]

We missed him against Chelsea

*runs and hides*

Well I can't argue we missed a quality midfielder,its just a shame it isn't someone with better credentials.

 

[NQCitizen]

It surely must be pointed out that Javi has actually played very well in the big games and been very effective at neutralising counter attacks down the middle. In the first game against Chelsea he did not give them a sniff through the middle, all be it in a 3 man midfield with Fernandinho present.

People criticise Javi for not lunging in to tackles (and bizarrely praise MDM for it, despite him missing more than he succeeded) but it's an intentional ploy. He backs off and tries to stay between the man with the ball and the goal, forcing them to have to try and beat the defensive unit, rather than lunging in and taking himself out of the game. The number of times he stops counter attacks by simply doing that and making the attacker turn back and look for support is invaluable, even if it is the sort of thing you never get praise for. MDM's style of trying to single handedly stop counter attacks in an all or nothing lunge is just unnecessarily risky and I can guarantee any tricky dribbler would far rather an opponent lunged in on a counter attack as opposed to backing off and forcing them to play through a 3 man center.

Not to mention that he certainly wouldn't have let their wingers repeatedly bring the ball down on their chests from long balls forward like MDM and Nastasic did. Hopefully he's back for Barcelona, otherwise Neymar and Messi will have an absolute field day with MDM

Yeah this further sums up my opinions on the Garcia vs Demichelis battle as central mid in a 2

 

[micky_blue]

We missed him against Chelsea

*runs and hides*

I agree he does run, quite slowly at times.................never hides though, sometime goes missing

 

[celticfc482]

I think its easy to see that Garcia is at least better than MDM.

 

[Rascal]

Javi would have made a difference against chelsea.I thought MDM did ok btw.

But with injuries needs must at time, and we look thin on the ground atm.

Javi may be ridiculed by many on here becausebhe aint that rubbish DeJong but he knows and understands how we play.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I personally think, given his recent good form he would have been slightly better at his duties in the middle. MDM's on the ball skills are much better, but the whole Chelsea team more often than not bypassed him time and time again. If's and but's I guess.

FWIW I thought MDM did pretty well in the circumstances. MDM's passing is better than Garcia's and his tackling is better than Garcia's. It's not as if you'd say that Garcia is much quicker at closing people down (in fact I'd say MDM shows greater urgency in terms of closing down) or has fantastically better energy levels than MDM so I'm not sure what people think Garcia would have done any better when outnumbered by a young midfield who were all having good games. Fernandinho would have been a different kettle of fish because apart from being a great footballer he is quick and has incredible energy levels but I really don't see how anyone thinks Garcia would have made a difference there instead of MDM. Even his staunchest supporters seem to think he can only function as part of a three.

There's some interesting points in there but here's my counter argument - Demichelis' urgency leaves him providing less cover to the back 4 than Garcia and Yaya seemed far more reluctant to get forward partnering Martin than Javi. I actually though Demichelis did as well as he could but that Garcia's more conservative style would have been of benefit to the team, with almost 5 defenders and a less restrained Yaya. Demichelis' passing may be more adventurous but "better" is debatable as Garcia is one of most effective players at passing to keep possession, even when under pressure. Again Demichelis tackling is more adventurous but once again "better" is up for debate.

One central player rushing to close down 3 attacking mids wasn't tactically right for the game, we'd have benefited from that extra body in front of the centre backs - unless it's Fernandinho who frequently does the work of two men.

Garcia is best in a 3 for sure, but I still think when the options are Rodwell and Milner who are inconsistent in possession and rash in the challenge, Demichelis who is slightly too impetuous and lacks mobility similar to Garcia and the ultra-safe (not a lauded characteristic, but a useful one) Garcia, Javi is our man for the job.

MDM's impetuosity sacres me when he is in the back four, I don't mind it so much when he is midfield when in theory he should have the insurance of the central defenders behind him. MDM as the sole holding midfielder was always a huge gamble against Chelsea and it didn't work but I honestly don't believe it would have been the slightest bit better had Garcia been there instead of him. If three midfielders had been breaking on Garcia we'd still have been in the shit. We get away with Garcia or MDM in a 2 against weaker opposition (I think against weaker opposition there is a case for saying MDM will be the better choice due to his more adventurous passing) and probably neither of them are good enough to play in a 2 against proper decent teams (but then as we saw against Bayern at home even Fernandinho in a 2 is sometimes not going to be enough). I admire Pellegrini's desire to play an outrageously attacking 442 by and large but when the opposition is strong and you have Fernandinho out a change of formation has to be considered. Especially with Aguero out too, Aguero and Negredo up front is worth the risk of being a man light in the middle, Negredo and Dzeko, not so much. And even the 442 might have worked if we'd just been a bit more circumspect as a team at times. Still we have had magnificent football this season and sometimes there will be times when we pay for being so open.

 

[NQCitizen]

FWIW I thought MDM did pretty well in the circumstances. MDM's passing is better than Garcia's and his tackling is better than Garcia's. It's not as if you'd say that Garcia is much quicker at closing people down (in fact I'd say MDM shows greater urgency in terms of closing down) or has fantastically better energy levels than MDM so I'm not sure what people think Garcia would have done any better when outnumbered by a young midfield who were all having good games. Fernandinho would have been a different kettle of fish because apart from being a great footballer he is quick and has incredible energy levels but I really don't see how anyone thinks Garcia would have made a difference there instead of MDM. Even his staunchest supporters seem to think he can only function as part of a three.

There's some interesting points in there but here's my counter argument - Demichelis' urgency leaves him providing less cover to the back 4 than Garcia and Yaya seemed far more reluctant to get forward partnering Martin than Javi. I actually though Demichelis did as well as he could but that Garcia's more conservative style would have been of benefit to the team, with almost 5 defenders and a less restrained Yaya. Demichelis' passing may be more adventurous but "better" is debatable as Garcia is one of most effective players at passing to keep possession, even when under pressure. Again Demichelis tackling is more adventurous but once again "better" is up for debate.

One central player rushing to close down 3 attacking mids wasn't tactically right for the game, we'd have benefited from that extra body in front of the centre backs - unless it's Fernandinho who frequently does the work of two men.

Garcia is best in a 3 for sure, but I still think when the options are Rodwell and Milner who are inconsistent in possession and rash in the challenge, Demichelis who is slightly too impetuous and lacks mobility similar to Garcia and the ultra-safe (not a lauded characteristic, but a useful one) Garcia, Javi is our man for the job.

MDM's impetuosity sacres me when he is in the back four, I don't mind it so much when he is midfield when in theory he should have the insurance of the central defenders behind him. MDM as the sole holding midfielder was always a huge gamble against Chelsea and it didn't work but I honestly don't believe it would have been the slightest bit better had Garcia been there instead of him. If three midfielders had been breaking on Garcia we'd still have been in the shit. We get away with Garcia or MDM in a 2 against weaker opposition (I think against weaker opposition there is a case for saying MDM will be the better choice due to his more adventurous passing) and probably neither of them are good enough to play in a 2 against proper decent teams (but then as we saw against Bayern at home even Fernandinho in a 2 is sometimes not going to be enough). I admire Pellegrini's desire to play an outrageously attacking 442 by and large but when the opposition is strong and you have Fernandinho out a change of formation has to be considered. Especially with Aguero out too, Aguero and Negredo up front is worth the risk of being a man light in the middle, Negredo and Dzeko, not so much. And even the 442 might have worked if we'd just been a bit more circumspect as a team at times. Still we have had magnificent football this season and sometimes there will be times when we pay for being so open.

I think the 4-4-2 could work even without gaps against top teams but that takes the replacing of Yaya (which obviously has significant draw backs). This Pellegrini way is crying out for Vidal or Gundogan, itll be interesting to see what we do next summer.

 

[Balti]

I'm not a huge fan but he has been improving and would certainly have been better in that position than you know who

Mooorinho could not believe his luck and yes got his tactics spot on