Javi Garcia

[The Indonesian]

First half he was shocking....i give him benefit of doubt as he was playing next to yaya. sometimes I feel like Im the only one who realize yaya is very lazy and not very good at defending

I disagree, I think his defending last season was good. Perhaps his recent defending is a side effect of being pushed forward?

 

[simon23]

Why not give the lad a chance.

He's played 3 fucking games.
If we were to write off players after 3 games loads would be classed as shite.

Some people were moaning about
Zaba
De Jong
Yaya
Silva
Barry
Lescott
Kompany
Just to name a few.
It's ridiculous to write a lad off after 3 games. Arguably the 3 hardest games we will face this season.

Give him a break.

I don't think many are righting him off.....its just most recognise that we are looking a lot more open in midfield and Garcia isn't as good defensively as dejong is...there aren't many better tacklers than ndj to be fair and we gave lost that bite in midfield...Garcia clearly has more to his game but mancini now needs to find the correct combo and balance in midfield.......and playing yaya in there is NOT the answer....he is wasted back there

 

[Shaelumstash]

Why not give the lad a chance.

He's played 3 fucking games.
If we were to write off players after 3 games loads would be classed as shite.

Some people were moaning about
Zaba
De Jong
Yaya
Silva
Barry
Lescott
Kompany
Just to name a few.
It's ridiculous to write a lad off after 3 games. Arguably the 3 hardest games we will face this season.

Give him a break.

I don't think many are righting him off.....its just most recognise that we are looking a lot more open in midfield and Garcia isn't as good defensively as dejong is...there aren't many better tacklers than ndj to be fair and we gave lost that bite in midfield...Garcia clearly has more to his game but mancini now needs to find the correct combo and balance in midfield.......and playing yaya in there is NOT the answer....he is wasted back there

Again, I don't understand where people get these opinions from, it can't be from watching the game. Yaya played the vast majority of last season there and he was one of the best players in the league, and we won it!

 

[OB1]

I really rate Barry as he is a very cleaver player, but both him and Garcia are extremely immobile.

So you are saying that Barry is a hatchet man who is incapable of moving?

 

[BornBlue92]

I rate Garcia big time. Did he look like he struggled a little with the pace of the Arsenal game? Probably. However, I do seem to recall Yaya and David also taking a while to adapt when they first arrived. Garcia is big upgrade on De Jong for mine. As much as I loved Nigel, we all knew his limitations

 

[Shaelumstash]

You are absolutely right that statistics are only part of the story but they are usually more objective and comprhensive than what supporters' eyes see. In this case you asked a question and I answered it but the answer is meaningless as it has no context: you should at least have asked what percentage of his passes were forward. Also, I wasn't offering a judgment on the players but merely pointing to facts that raise valid questions about the opinion as offered. For what it's worth, I prize possession of the ball highly so the fact that De Jong was amongst the best in the league at passing to a team mate ranks him as a very good distributor of the ball but not a creative one, IMO.

I completely disagree that statistics are a more comprehensive way of judging a player than watching the games he plays in and judging him.

On the contrary, I actually think De Jong's seemingly impressive ball retention statistics highlight the major drawback to his game - he was too cautious with the ball.

If I valued the statistical analysis I would have asked about the percentages, but football is subjective so no statistics can ever tell you about making the right pass.

I like De Jong, and I rate him. In a 3 man midfield he is fantastic, like the season we won the FA Cup. However last season when we played a higher tempo, more attacking game, he just didn't fit in with our style of play.

We tore teams apart moving the ball quickly making sharp incisive passes, De Jong slowed us down as a team, playing square and backwards, and percentage 'easy' passes. I don't know if there are statistics that demonstrate this, but it was glaringly obvious watching us last season.

I had no axe to grind against De Jong, in fact he was one of my favourite players, he just didn't fit in to our style of play.

If you think that the eye can see and accurately everything in a game that the stats record, you are sadly deluded; just as anyone who thinks that you can just rely on stats to assess a game or a player. Stats would actually be better named as performance indicators but I'm frankly not interested in debating their worth but there's good a reason why City are investing so much into analytics.

And for the record, I don't need you or stats to tell me about De Jong's deficiencies.

I've never suggested the eye can see everything that stats record. I'm saying that statistics in games such as baseball, NFL, cricket, basketball are much more relevant indicators of performance than they are in football, because good performance in football is more subjective.

The leading guys at Opta have already admitted this themselves. They found that they were expecting the top defenders in the game to make and win the most tackles, but this was rarely the case. In fact, at the time one of the best defenders in the world - Alesssandro Nesta made far fewer tackles than the average for a defender.

That is because he was so good at reading the game he made more interceptions, and people were more reluctant to pass to who he was marking because he was so good. The stats can't tell you that, only watching the game can.

I would assume statistics will tell you James Milner covered the most ground for CIty last year, probably had a high pass completion etc. His stats probably look more impressive than Barry. But there is no statistic for football intelligence, making the correct pass, run, movement, whatever. And there never will be, because each player / manager / fan will have a different interpretation of what the best / most intelligent thing to do is in any given situation. Clearly Mancini decided Barry was a better option in central midfield based on what he saw, not on what the spreadsheet told him.

I'm not saying the stats are worthless, but I would much rather take the expert subjective opinion of Mancini, Platt, Kidd etc on the quality of a player than the statistical analysis of someone like Comolli.

And for the record, I don't need you or your stats to tell me about De Jong's ball retention.

 

[simon23]

I really rate Barry as he is a very cleaver player, but both him and Garcia are extremely immobile.

So you are saying that Barry is a hatchet man who is incapable of moving?

Er NO!!!!!

Im saying Barry is a very cleaver player who makes up for his lack of pace by reading the game especially well and is very cleaver at breaking up play.....but both him and garcia are slow and not very mobile.

The issue for RM is to find the right combination for different matches. Most teams we know are going to do what they did last season and put 10 men behind the ball...howver if we play garcia we cannt play nasri silva tevez and yaya (presuming we are going to go with Sergio up front (or balo or dzeko)......

yaya is wasted in the deeper role...yes he played there last season but was only efective when allowed to move further forward...defensively yaya isnt that good....as an attacking force he is nigh on unstoppable and that is where we need him.

playing garcia means you have to play someone with him also (either rodwell, barry or milner).......that means one of our attacking players has to drop out....or if not we wll continue to be more open in the middle of the park....in every game so far this season we have been much more vulnerable and open in the space infornt of our defence.......last year we had the right blend in most games with either dejong, or barry say in there for most of the time....this year we dont have either at the moment and the result of this is clear to see...huge spaces appearing infront of our back four with opposition midfielders running freely in them....that will only lead to one thing ...more goals for the opposition and so far we havent kept a clean sheet and have conceeded more goals and more opportunities compared to last season....

and the only reason for this is we are lacking that balance.....due to dejong being sold, barry being injured and garcia not being upto the task of playing the defensive midfielder role on his own (or with yaya as when he does go forward he cannt get back quickly).....it has happened in every game this season so far and will continue to do so...

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

Why not give the lad a chance.

He's played 3 fucking games.
If we were to write off players after 3 games loads would be classed as shite.

Some people were moaning about
Zaba
De Jong
Yaya
Silva
Barry
Lescott
Kompany
Just to name a few.
It's ridiculous to write a lad off after 3 games. Arguably the 3 hardest games we will face this season.

Give him a break.

I don't think many are righting him off.....its just most recognise that we are looking a lot more open in midfield and Garcia isn't as good defensively as dejong is...there aren't many better tacklers than ndj to be fair and we gave lost that bite in midfield...Garcia clearly has more to his game but mancini now needs to find the correct combo and balance in midfield.......and playing yaya in there is NOT the answer....he is wasted back there

This is what I mean. You can't really say that after 3 games give him time.

I remember a few lads where I sit in south stand were not happy with zaba saying they thought corluka was better etc... One even said zaba was slower lol. Only way he could've been slower is if he could only walk backwards.

 

[simon23]

Why not give the lad a chance.

He's played 3 fucking games.
If we were to write off players after 3 games loads would be classed as shite.

Some people were moaning about
Zaba
De Jong
Yaya
Silva
Barry
Lescott
Kompany
Just to name a few.
It's ridiculous to write a lad off after 3 games. Arguably the 3 hardest games we will face this season.

Give him a break.

I don't think many are righting him off.....its just most recognise that we are looking a lot more open in midfield and Garcia isn't as good defensively as dejong is...there aren't many better tacklers than ndj to be fair and we gave lost that bite in midfield...Garcia clearly has more to his game but mancini now needs to find the correct combo and balance in midfield.......and playing yaya in there is NOT the answer....he is wasted back there

Again, I don't understand where people get these opinions from, it can't be from watching the game. Yaya played the vast majority of last season there and he was one of the best players in the league, and we won it!

i can assure you it is from watching the game, and highlights and re runs etc etc etc. yaya is wasted playing defensively and he isnt that good at it...his tackling is average for a guy of his size, and he gets caught forward and then cannt get back.....what happened last season was that he may have started games in that role but he was often pushed forward later on in games and this is where he suddenly become s more effective.

(infact as i type this i think maybe its alanguage/communication thing is why we are arguing about this.....what i may mean to say is that when yaya is released from his defensive responsibilities is when he becomes a more effective force......and his defensive capabilities arent anywhere near as good as his attacking ones....there are others that can do a better job defensively than yaya...NDJ was one such player and overall he aint half the player yaya is BUT his tackling and his ability to cover the back for (especially side to side and his ability to (if beaten ) recover is a lot better than yaya's

 

[simon23]

Why not give the lad a chance.

He's played 3 fucking games.
If we were to write off players after 3 games loads would be classed as shite.

Some people were moaning about
Zaba
De Jong
Yaya
Silva
Barry
Lescott
Kompany
Just to name a few.
It's ridiculous to write a lad off after 3 games. Arguably the 3 hardest games we will face this season.

Give him a break.

I don't think many are righting him off.....its just most recognise that we are looking a lot more open in midfield and Garcia isn't as good defensively as dejong is...there aren't many better tacklers than ndj to be fair and we gave lost that bite in midfield...Garcia clearly has more to his game but mancini now needs to find the correct combo and balance in midfield.......and playing yaya in there is NOT the answer....he is wasted back there

This is what I mean. You can't really say that after 3 games give him time.

I remember a few lads where I sit in south stand were not happy with zaba saying they thought corluka was better etc... One even said zaba was slower lol. Only way he could've been slower is if he could only walk backwards.

i can certainly say after watching him for 3 games that he isnt as good a tackler as dejong and that he is certainly less mobile....two key points for a defensive midfielder.....along with exceptional reading of the game....better int he air than dejong certainly...better useage of the ball than dejong (who just kept it very simple most of the time...though to be fair that is what you want from a player like him)....btu in key defesive attributes like tackling and being able to get back goal side once beaten...then he is well behind de jong

in your opinion looking at the games we have played do you think we are more open in midfield...especially in the 10 yds infront of the back 4?????? cause i do...and that is because neither dejong or barry are there at present...it is nothing to do with having played 3 games......those basic attributes which i menation you can easily see after just a couple.