Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[Dubai Blue]

IF the rumour is true I think it's a bad move by Pep. Will create a bit of a media circus around the club and destabilise us when we need a steady start. If he's going to drop joe he should wait until we've got his replacement. Willy isn't good enough.

If Joe's going, he'll know already. You can't risk a goalkeeper who knows he is toast.

 

[Fat Chance]

joe got caught by attackers putting the block on whilst attempting to punt the ball upfield in open play...this he done a good few times whilst having plenty of time/space to evaluate the park but stuttered that long the opposition attacker fancied the close down with a vigour..he even still attempted the big punt with the attacker moving in to his kicking corridor...that's shit play...truth is he aint the coolest of cats...his other barmy trick was runnung away from the ball to create leverage for a punt..seen him do that and the attacker got a foot on the ball with it thankfully not rebounding into his net but bounced back off joe for a corner...bizarrely he started screaming at the ref (not a scooby) like the ref should'nt have give a corner and presumably the attacker should'.nt go for the ball when joe is running away from it....you'd think a unit like joe would be able to kick a football left or right footed into the opponents half without first running away from the ball to do a little lads impression of a dead ball kick

I was cringing when hoddle picked up on joes lack of a quick step when trying to dive for a free kick that was obviously unsavable without first moving his feet...he never actually called him shit but said obviously the save is made with the feet-first...his following the flight of a ball with his head whilst having his feet planted is a belting trick....for the opposition.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I've not discounted what a ball playing keeper can do for us. you referred to valdes who is an average keeper, but because he can play out the back thats alright. i just dont see the need to change one of the best keepers in the league because he can't pass a 40 years ball straight to someones feet. if your talking about simple passing out the back hart can do that. what will help him thus year is actually having defenders comfortable with the ball and who want to be passed to.

Valdes was an average keeper?? Bloody hell, I'll take that average any day of the week and twice on Sunday....

Firstly, we don't want him launching it 40 yards in the first place, he does that because he lacks composure and unable to think fast enough under pressure, however, at least if you're going to launch it be bloody good at it..

Secondly, he can't play out from the back under pressure, the defensive line you've become accustomed to under manuel should be erased from your memory. Hart has been targeted by savvy coaches for over 2 years, applied pressure sees him become shaky, the system we are going to play now, is even more demanding as the opposition is going to be invited on to us!!!

 

[FanchesterCity]

How many of the above are integral to the system??

It's also integral for his keeper to be able to play out, I thought we'd established this?? There's a reason he has had the best defensive unit every year he has been a coach.. Valdes wasnt half the shot stopper hart is, what he possessed was an ability to keep hold of the ball without panicking. So there is no dilemma, the fundamentals to how we defend starts from the back and not allowing the opposition much possession, you can't have that with a keeper who is average with his distribution!!

I'd be less inclined to panic if I had Barca or Bayern's defence in front of me!
I'd say if the keeper being able to play the ball out from the back is integral, then so is the defence he's playing it out too - which includes Clichy and Kolarov. I'd say every single position on the pitch is integral to the system. 5-10% down will probably lose you the league in the PL. Probably not in Germany.

I don't think Joe's the weakest link, but if an opportunity arises to upgrade in his position, yes, we should take it - sometimes, it's all about timing / opportunity. But if there's a specific focus on a keeper upgrade ahead of all else, then that would be a worry (to me).

And as much as Hart is criticised for his distribution (which I do often!) - I've seen plenty of times when's he's been looking to distribute early and the rest of the team showing little urgency - and thus the opportunity is gone (i.e. it's not ALL his fault!).

If we're going to play it out from the back as a matter of course - there's not much point in Joe playing it to Kolarov / Clichy / Mangala etc unless they are equally as comfortable with it, and I'm not sure they are.

 

[PrezIke]

I've not discounted what a ball playing keeper can do for us. you referred to valdes who is an average keeper, but because he can play out the back thats alright. i just dont see the need to change one of the best keepers in the league because he can't pass a 40 years ball straight to someones feet. if your talking about simple passing out the back hart can do that. what will help him thus year is actually having defenders comfortable with the ball and who want to be passed to.

But Pep doesn't want simple passes out of the back, and also Hart lacks composure with the ball under pressure. Any keeper can make simple passes out of the back, but Pep's keeper needs to help start the attack and be able to also have a good first touch, whilst being able to make swift, accurate passes to defenders who will likely be marked since we will face pressure with hopes we give the ball away.

You trust Joe Hart to be able to manage that with a high level of confidence? I don't think our defenders will and that is also likely going to lead to increased nervousness on their part, or frustration.

We cannot afford to keep Joe under this system unless he becomes a new player, most likely, and that is not so likely to happen. If he is dropped today he will have to prove himself. I hope he does, as I am of course a huge fan of his, what he has meant to the club's success, and his history of loyalty. Yet, we need to win games Pep's way. The manager runs the team, not the keeper.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Valdes was an average keeper?? Bloody hell, I'll take that average any day of the week and twice and Sunday....

Firstly, we don't want him launching it 40 yards in the first place, he does that because he lacks composure and unable to think fast enough under pressure, however, at least if you're going to launch it be bloody good at it..

Secondly, he can't play out from the back under pressure, the defensive line you've become accustomed to under manuel should be erased from your memory. Hart has been targeted by savvy coaches for over 2 years, applied pressure sees him become shaky, the system we are going to play now, is even more demanding as the opposition is going to be invited on to us!!!

yes imo valdes was an average keeper, the team in front of him made him and the system. would have hart over him anyday. if their are no passes on he has to launch it 40 yards, he can't pass it out every time. we are never going to agree on this haha

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

But Pep doesn't want simple passes out of the back, and also Hart lacks composure with the ball under pressure. Any keeper can make simple passes out of the back, but Pep's keeper needs to help start the attack and be able to also have a good first touch, whilst being able to make swift, accurate passes to defenders who will likely be marked since we will face pressure with hopes we give the ball away.

You trust Joe Hart to be able to manage that with a high level of confidence? I don't think our defenders will and that is also likely going to lead to increased nervousness on their part, or frustration.

We cannot afford to keep Joe under this system unless he becomes a new player, most likely, and that is not so likely to happen. If he is dropped today he will have to prove himself. I hope he does, as I am of course a huge fan of his, what he has meant to the club's success, and his history of loyalty. Yet, we need to win games Pep's way. The manager runs the team, not the keeper.

the big difference for me over the next year say is the type of defenders we are bringing in will be confident with the ball. with players like mangala i dont think you can risk playing out at the back.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

yes imo valdes was an average keeper, the team in front of him made him and the system. would have hart over him anyday. if their are no passes on he has to launch it 40 yards, he can't pass it out every time. we are never going to agree on this haha

Sadly mate, we are miles off on this one, I'll just leave it with 'trust in pep'

And

Joe couldnt pass an eye exam (:

 

[razman]

If Hart is going to leave, I so hope it is bigger club than Everton - a champions league club.

Don't see it in England as every keeper is set ... If bravo is staying... Would he be a good no. 2 at Barca? Hart is a quality quality keeper and would over take bravo eventually.. He is 29 and keepers get better with age is the common belief

 

[Phil1]

Is this why he never responds to me?? Cheeky bum bum (:

Honestly don't see the point of putting anyone on ignore. Seems like a bit of a soft arse way of dealing with things. So yes, I'd say he has you on his shit list :-)

 

[Marvin]

I'd be less inclined to panic if I had Barca or Bayern's defence in front of me!
I'd say if the keeper being able to play the ball out from the back is integral, then so is the defence he's playing it out too - which includes Clichy and Kolarov. I'd say every single position on the pitch is integral to the system. 5-10% down will probably lose you the league in the PL. Probably not in Germany.

I don't think Joe's the weakest link, but if an opportunity arises to upgrade in his position, yes, we should take it - sometimes, it's all about timing / opportunity. But if there's a specific focus on a keeper upgrade ahead of all else, then that would be a worry (to me).

And as much as Hart is criticised for his distribution (which I do often!) - I've seen plenty of times when's he's been looking to distribute early and the rest of the team showing little urgency - and thus the opportunity is gone (i.e. it's not ALL his fault!).

If we're going to play it out from the back as a matter of course - there's not much point in Joe playing it to Kolarov / Clichy / Mangala etc unless they are equally as comfortable with it, and I'm not sure they are.

We haven't even seen Joe play under Pep yet, not in a serious match, and yet he's somehow fallen short of the standards required! I could understand this line of argument if we'd played 6-10 games and it had become an issue in matches.

The pre-season game vs Arsenal is not a benchmark because the back 4 were giving the ball away in that game. A keeper is not going to pass it to his back 4 if they are under pressure and are struggling with their own game.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Honestly don't see the point of putting anyone on ignore. Seems like a bit of a soft arse way of dealing with things. So yes, I'd say he has you on his shit list :-)

I won't sleep..... He's a prat..

Right, I'm off to watch willy give a masterclass in 10 yard passing (:

Oh look, here he is..... Waves

Have a day off starving, talking shit surely must tire you out!!

 

[malg]

Fucking hell, hasn't everyone turned into football fucking geniuses since Guardiola's arrival? Don't know why the club have bothered paying Guardiola all that money, they should have just come on here and got someone for around £100k a year.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Fucking hell, hasn't everyone turned into football fucking geniuses since Guardiola's arrival? Don't know why the club have bothered paying Guardiola all that money, they should have just come on here and got someone for around £100k a year.

Na, and I've always been a 'fucking' genius....

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

If he wasn't English he wouldn't be here now imo. I like him as hes one of the few players whose he been here since the pre-takeover however his distribution has always been his handicap.

 

[Phil1]

Fucking hell, hasn't everyone turned into football fucking geniuses since Guardiola's arrival? Don't know why the club have bothered paying Guardiola all that money, they should have just come on here and got someone for around £100k a year.

Just paying attention to how the new manager works, mate. Nothing to do with trying to be a football genius. There's plenty about Pep I've not got a clue about and I'm looking forward to learning plenty. The goalkeeping issue I could see a mile off though.

 

[FanchesterCity]

On the face of it, it seems that Joe isn't being given a chance to prove that he can actually do it. But could it be the case that Pep had spotted this flaw a while back and made it clear to him last season that he had to work on it and improve by the time he turned up? Maybe Joe didn't take this advice on board and that has pissed the manager off. I'm just speculating because it doesn't seem right to not at least give him a few weeks to work at it.

I don't know. My gut feeling is there's more to it than one single aspect of his keeping - one which (in theory) would be worked on under Pep.
I'm not sure Pep would be pushing De Gea out.

I think we're all speculating on the reasons, and perhaps people are right - 'he just doesn't fit into Pep's style of play', 'not capable of playing out from the back' etc. It just seems a very simplistic answer for a major decision to replace a keeper. I personally think it's more likely to be a combination of factors, and those may only be two of them. But however you look at it, a replacement still has to offer an overall net improvement (pardon the pun!), and there's not a long list of available upgrades on him (imo).

I can't imagine Joe's confidence is particularly high right now, and even Willy must know he's never going to be our number 1. If Joe's going, it needs to happen soon.

 

[hgblue]

We wanted the club to hire Pep because he's the best in the business and is capable of making the big decisions that separate the good managers from the great ones. He's been here for five minutes and has made his first big call, and some are questioning his judgement already. Quite amusing really....

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I look forward to you singing your ditty after Willy scuffs the ball straight to Jermain Defoe half a dozen times today, and/or makes a pig's ear of every cross and corner like he did at Spurs last season...... ;-)

I think we both agree Willy's not the answer. Mind you, that depends on what the question is. ;-)

 

[FanchesterCity]

I think we both agree Willy's not the answer. Mind you, that depends on what the question is. ;-)

Brings a hole (sic) new meaning to goalkeeping cock-ups!