kaz7
Well-Known Member
English taught english joe v the best goalie in the world and taught very differently his whole career,stupid comparisonNumbers do not lie.
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Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)
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rapidCT
Well-Known Member
You had. This forum, and members like you, are a disgrace with all the hate you have for our players.Have we seriously got a member of this forum who;
1) Believes Pep's style is tiki-taka,
2) Thinks that our defence has been organised over the last two seasons,
3) Chooses this of all summer to say they want a bit of "English style" over the football that Pep will try to implement?
BlueBlood81
Well-Known Member
You had. This forum, and members like you, are a disgrace with all the hate you have for our players.
Have a day off you fucking idiot
Great question. I struggle to understand why he couldn't develop, and having seen him a lot in games and in warm ups, he seems quite an able footballer. Perhaps he just needs time. We're all capable of learning.
And he can take a mean penalty!
Don't let the door smack your arse on the way out.You had. This forum, and members like you, are a disgrace with all the hate you have for our players.
FanchesterCity
Well-Known Member
Great question. I struggle to understand why he couldn't develop, and having seen him a lot in games and in warm ups, he seems quite an able footballer. Perhaps he just needs time. We're all capable of learning.
Absolutely he's capable of learning and becoming better. I don't think that's in doubt.
Someone (in theory) might have been able to squeeze a bit more ability out of Ricky Hatton, but would he ever have been able to beat Floyd Mayweather?
You still end up with the same issue in the end... given two sportsmen, both of whom are capable of improving, do you choose Hatton or Mayweather in your team?
I think Delph could improve under Pep, but he'll never be Iniesta and if we could buy a new Iniesta, Delph would be gone right? - it's the same with Joe, or any player for that matter.
If we have a player in the academy that Pep thinks can make it to the very top, then I'm sure he'd invest time and effort in that young lad, but he is not going to do that with a player he doesn't think can make it to the very top - even if he could still make him a bit better.
'Having seen Hart in warmup' is a far cry from being chased down by Messi or Ronaldo or Suarez and having to play it out rapidly to a defender in order to start a counter attack.
I can probably do a fair few keepie-uppies in the comfort of my back garden, but put me on the pitch at the Etihad and it might be a different story!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Joe is lousy, precisely the opposite, I think he's very good. More than good enough for most PL teams and good enough for our national team.
Good enough to be part of the very best team in Europe? - I don't know, but seems Pep doesn't think so. I expect there's a few others he doesn't think are good enough either.
One of the problems we have as City fans is that by our standards, the players we have now are superb! (generally speaking). We've never been one of the world's great clubs, we've never won CL, we've never even had a sustained dominance in our domestic league. We're still learning, and we have to learn to be a merciless and critical as the very best in the world.
We have to be honest with ourselves and realistic about how good (or not) we really are. Right now, we're a damn good PL team. That's it. We really aren't feared across Europe (and rightly so), and half of our players wouldn't keep a place in a top European team. I'm no being critical, I'm damn chuffed at how good we currently are, but I'm also realistic about how far we still have to go!
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Happy Feet
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Superb, made my day :)Have a day off you fucking idiot
FanchesterCity
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English taught english joe v the best goalie in the world and taught very differently his whole career,stupid comparison
It is a stupid comparison, you're right.
I don't think many doubt Neuer is a better keeper, but those stats prove nothing. They might not lie, but they mislead and give rise to countless interpretations.
It's like the old pass completion stats... if you pass 5 yards then you might get 90% pass success rate, and yet if you play incredible long sweeping crossfield passes, and only half of them work (incredible stat), only 50% of your passes are successful. You'd end up with Zidane looking second best to Lee Cattermole!
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Yes he can. Vinny's hit some absolute peaches over 60-70 yards to create chances down the years.
That's down to percentages. So has Joe Hart. Most of Vinny's long passes go to the oppo goalkeeper. Having said that, everyone will be better at everything under Pep. They have basically been operating for 3 years without a coach.
It is a stupid comparison, you're right.
I don't think many doubt Neuer is a better keeper, but those stats prove nothing. They might not lie, but they mislead and give rise to countless interpretations.
It's like the old pass completion stats... if you pass 5 yards then you might get 90% pass success rate, and yet if you play incredible long sweeping crossfield passes, and only half of them work (incredible stat), only 50% of your passes are successful. You'd end up with Zidane looking second best to Lee Cattermole!
Far from stupid when these are the stats PEP is using to see what type of keeper he wants.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
English taught english joe v the best goalie in the world and taught very differently his whole career,stupid comparison
It's not an insult, it's an explanation of why Joe has likely got a problem. English taught Joe has to become non English taught Joe, very quickly.
True there are limits. Perhaps when I see Bravo, as seems inevitable, I'll see a huge gulf between them in terms of their distribution. If anything Joe seems better at the short game than Willy and yet it's Willy that played. Perhaps there has been some resistance. I don't know, but at least it looks like we will have a top keeper, and ultimately it's the team that counts.Absolutely he's capable of learning and becoming better. I don't think that's in doubt.
Someone (in theory) might have been able to squeeze a bit more ability out of Ricky Hatton, but would he ever have been able to beat Floyd Mayweather?
You still end up with the same issue in the end... given two sportsmen, both of whom are capable of improving, do you choose Hatton or Mayweather in your team?
I think Delph could improve under Pep, but he'll never be Iniesta and if we could buy a new Iniesta, Delph would be gone right? - it's the same with Joe, or any player for that matter.
If we have a player in the academy that Pep thinks can make it to the very top, then I'm sure he'd invest time and effort in that young lad, but he is not going to do that with a player he doesn't think can make it to the very top - even if he could still make him a bit better.
Everyone will be on their toes now. Last season players were taking things for granted and we were a lazy complacent team which was really demotivating for the fans to watch. (But it started very differently. First few games we were flying but it didn't last)
FanchesterCity
Well-Known Member
Far from stupid when these are the stats PEP is using to see what type of keeper he wants.
I suspect he's using his eyes at his number one measure.
He most certainly isn't using THOSE stats you posted. Those stats are for TV and Web viewers who like the top trumps approach to football punditry. They are produced by a recent graduate working in Sky or BBC media teams.
Will Pep use stats? of course he will, just not THOSE stats.
Edit:
Those stats were from the Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ears-Pep-Guardiola-wants-Manchester-City.html
Top Trump stats for the masses.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
It is a stupid comparison, you're right.
I don't think many doubt Neuer is a better keeper, but those stats prove nothing. They might not lie, but they mislead and give rise to countless interpretations.
It's like the old pass completion stats... if you pass 5 yards then you might get 90% pass success rate, and yet if you play incredible long sweeping crossfield passes, and only half of them work (incredible stat), only 50% of your passes are successful. You'd end up with Zidane looking second best to Lee Cattermole!
If you wave away the cbs & lump it 60 yards to the lino, your stats are unlikely to match up.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
He can't do it as it takes years to change your muscle memory and style after doing it the same way for 25yrs,comparing stats with Nuer is stupid because he is some what of a freak in goal keeping terms,i'm sure pep knows he won't have another to work with like him.Bravo v joe is a fairer comparisonIt's not an insult, it's an explanation of why Joe has likely got a problem. English taught Joe has to become non English taught Joe, very quickly.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
He can't do it as it takes years to change your muscle memory and style after doing it the same way for 25yrs,comparing stats with Nuer is stupid because he is some what of a freak in goal keeping terms,i'm sure pep knows he won't have another to work with like him.Bravo v joe is a fairer comparison
It will most likely be very similar.
FanchesterCity
Well-Known Member
If you wave away the cbs & lump it 60 yards to the lino, your stats are unlikely to match up.
I don't disagree, I just disagree with simplistic stats from the Daily Mail being presented as empirical evidence.
You can't compare two keepers with 5 numbers each, one of which is 'number of appearances' and another 'passes per 90 mins' !! They're in different teams, in different leagues, playing different systems - let alone the quality of outfield players too.
Neville Kneville
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I don't disagree, I just disagree with simplistic stats from the Daily Mail being presented as empirical evidence.
You can't compare two keepers with 5 numbers each, one of which is 'number of appearances' and another 'passes per 90 mins' !! They're in different teams, in different leagues, playing different systems - let alone the quality of outfield players too.
Oh I'm not somebody who takes stats on face value, but I was watching Hart last season & he was constantly waving away defenders in open space in order to lump the ball out for a throw in. I watched the kids' teams & the keepers there were knocking the ball about like outfield players.
I recon Angus Gunn's stats are probably way above Joe's.
kaz7
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Our academy are teaching a more continental style so if Angus makes it he play more like a sweeper than joe can at 30yr old having always been taught the typical english waySo what about the young keepers, Gunn etc. Are you saying its not too late for them to learn, just too late for Joe, or should we just scrap taking in English goalies into the academy?
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