Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[Neville Kneville]

English taught english joe v the best goalie in the world and taught very differently his whole career,stupid comparison

It's not an insult, it's an explanation of why Joe has likely got a problem. English taught Joe has to become non English taught Joe, very quickly.

 

[Marvin]

Absolutely he's capable of learning and becoming better. I don't think that's in doubt.
Someone (in theory) might have been able to squeeze a bit more ability out of Ricky Hatton, but would he ever have been able to beat Floyd Mayweather?
You still end up with the same issue in the end... given two sportsmen, both of whom are capable of improving, do you choose Hatton or Mayweather in your team?

I think Delph could improve under Pep, but he'll never be Iniesta and if we could buy a new Iniesta, Delph would be gone right? - it's the same with Joe, or any player for that matter.
If we have a player in the academy that Pep thinks can make it to the very top, then I'm sure he'd invest time and effort in that young lad, but he is not going to do that with a player he doesn't think can make it to the very top - even if he could still make him a bit better.

True there are limits. Perhaps when I see Bravo, as seems inevitable, I'll see a huge gulf between them in terms of their distribution. If anything Joe seems better at the short game than Willy and yet it's Willy that played. Perhaps there has been some resistance. I don't know, but at least it looks like we will have a top keeper, and ultimately it's the team that counts.

Everyone will be on their toes now. Last season players were taking things for granted and we were a lazy complacent team which was really demotivating for the fans to watch. (But it started very differently. First few games we were flying but it didn't last)

 

[FanchesterCity]

Far from stupid when these are the stats PEP is using to see what type of keeper he wants.

I suspect he's using his eyes at his number one measure.
He most certainly isn't using THOSE stats you posted. Those stats are for TV and Web viewers who like the top trumps approach to football punditry. They are produced by a recent graduate working in Sky or BBC media teams.

Will Pep use stats? of course he will, just not THOSE stats.


Edit:
Those stats were from the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ears-Pep-Guardiola-wants-Manchester-City.html

Top Trump stats for the masses.

 

[Neville Kneville]

It is a stupid comparison, you're right.

I don't think many doubt Neuer is a better keeper, but those stats prove nothing. They might not lie, but they mislead and give rise to countless interpretations.
It's like the old pass completion stats... if you pass 5 yards then you might get 90% pass success rate, and yet if you play incredible long sweeping crossfield passes, and only half of them work (incredible stat), only 50% of your passes are successful. You'd end up with Zidane looking second best to Lee Cattermole!

If you wave away the cbs & lump it 60 yards to the lino, your stats are unlikely to match up.

 

[kaz7]

It's not an insult, it's an explanation of why Joe has likely got a problem. English taught Joe has to become non English taught Joe, very quickly.

He can't do it as it takes years to change your muscle memory and style after doing it the same way for 25yrs,comparing stats with Nuer is stupid because he is some what of a freak in goal keeping terms,i'm sure pep knows he won't have another to work with like him.Bravo v joe is a fairer comparison

 

[Neville Kneville]

He can't do it as it takes years to change your muscle memory and style after doing it the same way for 25yrs,comparing stats with Nuer is stupid because he is some what of a freak in goal keeping terms,i'm sure pep knows he won't have another to work with like him.Bravo v joe is a fairer comparison

It will most likely be very similar.

 

[FanchesterCity]

If you wave away the cbs & lump it 60 yards to the lino, your stats are unlikely to match up.

I don't disagree, I just disagree with simplistic stats from the Daily Mail being presented as empirical evidence.
You can't compare two keepers with 5 numbers each, one of which is 'number of appearances' and another 'passes per 90 mins' !! They're in different teams, in different leagues, playing different systems - let alone the quality of outfield players too.

 

[bellsouth]

So what about the young keepers, Gunn etc. Are you saying its not too late for them to learn, just too late for Joe, or should we just scrap taking in English goalies into the academy?

 

[Neville Kneville]

I don't disagree, I just disagree with simplistic stats from the Daily Mail being presented as empirical evidence.
You can't compare two keepers with 5 numbers each, one of which is 'number of appearances' and another 'passes per 90 mins' !! They're in different teams, in different leagues, playing different systems - let alone the quality of outfield players too.

Oh I'm not somebody who takes stats on face value, but I was watching Hart last season & he was constantly waving away defenders in open space in order to lump the ball out for a throw in. I watched the kids' teams & the keepers there were knocking the ball about like outfield players.

I recon Angus Gunn's stats are probably way above Joe's.

 

[kaz7]

So what about the young keepers, Gunn etc. Are you saying its not too late for them to learn, just too late for Joe, or should we just scrap taking in English goalies into the academy?

Our academy are teaching a more continental style so if Angus makes it he play more like a sweeper than joe can at 30yr old having always been taught the typical english way