Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[BlueAnorak]

It's not comparing Oranges with Apples - it's a clear fact that Joe's distribution is poor and you cannot simply blame the defenders in front of him for not moving as the reason why it's the case. The video I posted cannot be argued with. There were clear opportunities to distribute the ball quickly to an England shirt and he failed to do so.

Like I said I don't want Joe to fail and he'll get a chance to improve under Pep but Neuer's distribution stats were around the late 60% before Pep arrived and have since been closer to the 80% mark. His throwing etc is so quick and accurate and Joe has a lot of work to do to try and get up to that level with his game. We're talking about a keeper that's closer to the 50% mark so any improvement might get him to 60/70% but I'm not sure even that will be good enough for Pep.

Anyway it's clear you're blind to Hart's obvious weaknesses and will blame all else but facts are facts.

Of course the video evidence can be interpreted differently - you just chose to ignore - the lack of movement by most English defenders and also aby instructions from Roy Hodgson. it is indeed comparing Oranges and Apples and you know it.
I just can't for the life of me understand why any City fan would not want to give Joe a chance to prove himself under Pep. It is beyond my comprehension actually.
The fact that changing Hart makes our situation with home grown players even worse seems to have passed you by as well. Still that's Fifa 16 for you...

 

[supercity88]

Of course it is comparing Oranges and Apples and you know it.
I just can't for the life of me understand why any City fan would not want to give Joe a chance to prove himself under Pep. It is beyond my comprehension actually.
The fact that changing Hart makes our situation with home grown players even worse seems to have passed you by as well. Still that's Fifa 16 for you...

If I was comparing anything it might be, but I'm not so...

As well as not understanding why a City fan wouldn't want to give Joe a chance you clearly can't read - as I said literally in my last post that I want to see Hart succeed and be given a chance. No one has said "sell him". We're simply looking at the facts and you clearly have no idea how to play football if you think the reason Hart has such a low pass completion percentage is down to the defenders in front of him. As I said, Woy had clearly asked Joe to play out from the back and you can see Cahill and Stones get into space to allow an easy pass, but Joe couldn't play the pass quickly enough and wasn't comfortable enough on the ball to play the simple ball so ended up kicking it up field or delaying a pass and then putting his defender under trouble.

We don't need to worry about the homegrown rule for much longer considering the strength of the academy and we certainly will not be selling Hart this summer. Just to reiterate, because you're clearly below average IQ, I'm not saying Hart should be sold - I'm just stating that he has a lot of work to do to improve his distribution because it was quite appalling for England. Whether there are options or not, he shouldn't be kicking the ball straight off the pitch, Harry Kane was up front and he should have at least aimed the ball towards him if nothing short was on.

 

[Phil1]

It's a handy excuse to have blaming the outfield players for lack of movement. It's not true, but it sounds plausible.
He doesn't look comfortable on the ball. It's that simple. Wherever it's a 5 yard pass or a 25 yard pass it's the same. He doesn't seem to have the awareness of other more accomplished keepers who like to pass it out. It only takes a second or so of hesitation and the moment has gone, that's where Joe falls down for me. He's not at all confident at first time balls that require accuracy.
Hopefully this is the season where we see a huge improvement because if he was able to get to a decent standard there's no reason why he couldn't be our number one for a few years yet.

 

[BlueAnorak]

If the rest of our team performed to the same level as Joe did in the season just gone by we'd have walked the league and that is more of a fact than any of the Joe hating clap trap that has been posted in this thread.
He deserves a chance to be Goalkeeper for years ahead under Pep. End of.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Wrong - there is no minimum we could have none if we wanted! The reason home grown matters is we only have 17 foreign spots and that is our major restriction. Selling Hart would mean either ewe need an English keeper or one less outfield transfer!

No shit. My point is if we want to maximize the squad we only need 4. People thinking we have a home grown crisis are wrong.

 

[Terra Passenger]

No shit. My point is if we want to maximize the squad we only need 4. People thinking we have a home grown crisis are wrong.

Just curious... and I'm not advocating this... just wondering... is there anything from a team signing whatever the minimum requirement is for home-grown players with no intention whatsoever of ever-ever starting them - in other words, is there anything against signing 4 or 5 scrub home-grown bench warmers?

 

[BlueAnorak]

Just curious... and I'm not advocating this... just wondering... is there anything from a team signing whatever the minimum requirement is for home-grown players with no intention whatsoever of ever-ever starting them - in other words, is there anything against signing 4 or 5 scrub home-grown bench warmers?

Squad = 25 players over 21, 8 of whom must be homegrown. Max 17 foreign players. No limits on the number of 21 or under players.
A home-grown player, as defined by the Premier League, is a player who: (a) is 21 or older on January 1 of the year in which that season begins and (b) spent three years between the ages of 16 and 21 with a team in the English football League system.

So having 5 scrub-players drops you down to a squad of 20 before you start, of whom 3 have to be home grown.
This limits your ability to rotate and puts you in real trouble if you have a large number of injuries.

 

[Terra Passenger]

Squad = 25 players over 21, 8 of whom must be homegrown. Max 17 foreign players. No limits on the number of 21 or under players.
A home-grown player, as defined by the Premier League, is a player who: (a) is 21 or older on January 1 of the year in which that season begins and (b) spent three years between the ages of 16 and 21 with a team in the English football League system.

So having 5 scrub-players drops you down to a squad of 20 before you start, of whom 3 have to be home grown.
This limits your ability to rotate and puts you in real trouble if you have a large number of injuries.

Makes sense - plus the fact that a large number of very talented English players have emerged over the last year or so makes signing talented home-grown players even more attractive.

That said....

Back on topic.
===========
Will Joe Hart - in spite of his obvious talent - be with us at season's end next year?

As much as I like Joe, I rather think not. Joe's forte is not "ability on the ball." As much as Pep's teams have featured a sweeper at the back in order to maximize offensive pressure - I think Joe's days are numbered.

Unless Barca have brain-washed Ter Stegan - I think Ter Stegan is more likely than not to be our starting keeper next season.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Joe hart will be man city number 1 at the start of the season!

 

[Terra Passenger]

Joe hart will be man city number 1 at the start of the season!

Maybe so.

But will Pep change his preferred style - the style he started at Barca and persisted with at Munich? Probably not.

Will Hart somehow develop extreme talent on the ball and become a sweeper? Probably not.

So even if Joe does start between the sticks next season, I can see Pep growing increasingly frustrated with him in spite of Joe's excellent shot-stopping ability and pretty good/constantly improving distribution and consistency.

I think that if Joe starts as our number one next season, Pep will try very hard to replace Joe in the summer window. If that fails, I really can't see Joe being here two years hence (and to be clear, I really like Joe and think that he's been world class last season (by which I mean, top 10 in the world) - this is not at all a criticism of Joe - but rather a recognition that Joe doesn't fit into Pep's philosophy at all).

For me, Ter Stegen isn't nearly the shot-stopper that Joe is - and TS suffers from inconsistency just as Joe does - probably more-so over the last season. There's a good reason that Bravo is the Barca number one.

However, TS is extremely good on the ball - Joe will never get anywhere near as good IMO.