John Stones

[Thaksinssoldier]

The latest "great hope for England" no thank you. He's proved this season he's not good enough. People always point out he's a ball playing CB but miss out the fact he's shite at it! A poor mans Ashley Williams in that respect.

They said the same thing of Phil Jones.

 

[Dax777]

I am more interested in the 1st goal , he moves out of position as he sees a run into the box and that costs the goal as Vardy ghosts into his position. A good defender will hold until he can judge the direction of the cross/pass. Of course Oviedo should do better but Stones created the space , he fell for a very simple tactic of a runner dragging him out of position.

Some may find my analysis harsh but these are the margins at the top level. As soon as Stones moves towards the runner watch Vardy.

Yep. Your analysis is both harsh and wrong. But it sure mirrors the kind of analysis TV heads like to give once they have reputation clouding their judgement.

There was no 'hold and judge the ball' requirement. That's just BS analysis. Pay close attention. Once the throw-in occurred (even before) you could see Everton players jumping into a 'man' defense. Some guy even ran towards the guy throwing the ball, coz that was gonna be his man once play resumed.

Stone's man was attempting a run to the front post, and Stones correctly began to follow. The cross was sent to the back post where another player (Vardy) was cutting towards, and Oveido was late in his follow.

The way people have been judging Stones on this thread, kinda suggests it's always a CBs fault when a goal is given up. Seeing as CBs play in the Center, with any goal, you could always claim "they should have been in that space."

This by the way, is the "Stones Error" on 90% of goals people accuse him of costing his team. Which to me is nothing but "reputation analysis."

Whether Stones becomes great or not I don't know, but he clearly has the tools, temperament and Ball skills that a the building blocks of greatness. Whats for sure though is that this wouldn't be based on the TV commentary type of "analysis by reputation" that has now become the norm.here.

 

[IWasHere]

And what about the second rag goal in the last minute of a semi final, where he completely loses the plot? That one was called "not being able to defend".

Far too many cracks for this egg to boil.

That was jagielkas fault

Not to mention he was there best player in the second half

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

That was jagielkas fault

Not to mention he was there best player in the second half

You really are in denial on his current ability aren't you.

Dont get me wrong, in 3 years he could mature into a phenom, but today and at the price we'd pay I think he's more relevant to the transfer list of teams lower than Everton rather than above them. I honestly think anything over 20 mil would be a waste. At least when we gambled on Raheem we had seen him in a title chasing team, seen him play in elite European competition etc. We've seen nothing of Stones yet to suggest he's up to the challenge.

 

[IWasHere]

You really are in denial on his current ability aren't you.

Dont get me wrong, in 3 years he could mature into a phenom, but today and at the price we'd pay I think he's more relevant to the transfer list of teams lower than Everton rather than above them. I honestly think anything over 20 mil would be a waste. At least when we gambled on Raheem we had seen him in a title chasing team, seen him play in elite European competition etc. We've seen nothing of Stones yet to suggest he's up to the challenge.

I'm not deluded enough to disregard any of his mistakes but when it's not his fault and people blame him just for the sake of it them I'll defend him

You get people on here who say pep will make sterling a better play, why can't he do the same to Stones?

 

[Dax777]

That was jagielkas fault

Not to mention he was there best player in the second half

Actually, if you rewind the video on Martial's goal, it's easy to see that the error was on the midfielder who was tracking Martial and for some absurd reason stopped following him once he passed it off originally.

Funny enough, Sanchez goal against us was quite similar. Fernandihno was the tracker, I think he got a bit banged up and couldn't stay with Sanchez or perhaps he was just tired. Either way, everyone ond their mother recognized the error laid strictly with Dihno. No one thought Mangala or Ota were somehow at fault.

Yet, these same people watch a similar sequence, with a midfielder failing to stay with his mark, but the conclude the "error prone Stones" must be at fault, seeing as he was closest to Martial when he slipped through.

This would be the equivalent of blaming Mangala or Ota (seeing as Mangala was tangled with the player who passed off to Sanchez) for Arsenal's 2nd goal. But no one did that. This suggests people can actually read errors correctly. But are often influenced (Consciously or otherwise) by the reputation bias.

This is not to suggest Stones haven't been culpable for any goals, but rather he is no more error prone than your averagely good CB.

Again I'll repeat, he is less error prone than any of our CBs, or at the least, no more prone to errors of judgment or action.

His biggest flaw is having a reputation of being Error Prone.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

Actually, if you rewind the video on Martial's goal, it's easy to see that the error was on the midfielder who was tracking Martial and for some absurd reason stopped following him once he passed it off originally.

Funny enough, Sanchez goal against us was quite similar. Fernandihno was the tracker, I think he got a bit banged up and couldn't stay with Sanchez or perhaps he was just tired. Either way, everyone ond their mother recognized the error laid strictly with Dihno. No one thought Mangala or Ota were somehow at fault.

Yet, these same people watch a similar sequence, with a midfielder failing to stay with his mark, but the conclude the "error prone Stones" must be at fault, seeing as he was closest to Martial when he slipped through.

This would be the equivalent of blaming Mangala or Ota (seeing as Mangala was tangled with the player who passed off to Sanchez) for Arsenal's 2nd goal. But no one did that. This suggests people can actually read errors correctly. But are often influenced (Consciously or otherwise) by the reputation bias.

This is not to suggest Stones haven't been culpable for any goals, but rather he is no more error prone than your averagely good CB.

Again I'll repeat, he is less error prone than any of our CBs, or at the least, no more prone to errors of judgment or action.

His biggest flaw is having a reputation of being Error Prone.

I hope to God you are actually right buddy, because I don't rate him at all and I do think this one is a done deal and there'll be a lot of cash on the table.

 

[Bluearmy]

Pause it at 2:12

Can you explain to me how that's a line please

It's not, stones is behind the rest of the defence playing Vardy on. That's the point surely. Pause and 2.49 and look at the line Sky have drawn for you and tell me he's made the right decision there. His body shape/eye line is towards Baines. The Last thing he should do is drop and be 2/3 yards behind him playing Vardy on. Clearly poor defending

 

[Dax777]

I hope to God you are actually right buddy, because I don't rate him at all and I do think this one is a done deal and there'll be a lot of cash on the table.

Don't get me wrong, I think the price is over the top. Virgil at Southampton is as good or better, and wouldn't cost 50 million.

So I get the arguments of those who hate the price. But there is nothing uniquely bad about his game. He is calm, confident, strong and comfortable on the ball. He is a competent young player with few holes in his game.

The 'error reputation' is just TV heads overblowing 2-3 mistakes. Something that is common to almost all defenders.

I think the price is a ripoff, just like Sterlings. But the player is solid. Are there similarly talented players for cheaper? Absolutely.

 

[alan w]

Yep. Your analysis is both harsh and wrong. But it sure mirrors the kind of analysis TV heads like to give once they have reputation clouding their judgement.

There was no 'hold and judge the ball' requirement. That's just BS analysis. Pay close attention. Once the throw-in occurred (even before) you could see Everton players jumping into a 'man' defense. Some guy even ran towards the guy throwing the ball, coz that was gonna be his man once play resumed.

Stone's man was attempting a run to the front post, and Stones correctly began to follow. The cross was sent to the back post where another player (Vardy) was cutting towards, and Oveido was late in his follow.

The way people have been judging Stones on this thread, kinda suggests it's always a CBs fault when a goal is given up. Seeing as CBs play in the Center, with any goal, you could always claim "they should have been in that space."

This by the way, is the "Stones Error" on 90% of goals people accuse him of costing his team. Which to me is nothing but "reputation analysis."

Whether Stones becomes great or not I don't know, but he clearly has the tools, temperament and Ball skills that a the building blocks of greatness. Whats for sure though is that this wouldn't be based on the TV commentary type of "analysis by reputation" that has now become the norm.here.

Vardy sees Stones move a yard towards the runner and peels a yard back off him creating the space ( for what was a great cross ) to give himself the room required to punish him. Stones realises quickly he's out of position and tries to back in tighter but by then it is too late , his job there is to cut any cross out but he gets caught cold. Stones cant go chasing a runner - why?? because if he does he leaves space in behind him for Vardy to attack , yet he did and what happened. Stones wrongly tries to anticipate a pass to the runner , if he was a good defender he would hold his position and not commit until the ball was played.

It's not BS analysis it is an honest assessment of what actually happened.