Juanma Lillo leaves to become Al-Sadd Head Coach

[urban genie]

Reading through this thread, quite a few are looking a tad silly now.


This thread is actually a good insight into the psychology of many posters. When we weren't doing well, people were looking for something or someone to blame. They associated our success with the outgoing Arteta, and the failings with the incoming Lillo. Many posts were lacking in thought, and the ones that didn't were lacking in insight.

But the truth is, nobody really knew what either did. We know bits and pieces, but not really much. Even now, I'd say the same. Chances are, they both have had positive impacts, but ultimately the buck stops at Pep, good and bad.

In fairness, it's no different to a player thread. Most don't really know the depth of what they critique. Some do, but they're rare. They call what they see, and in fairness, sometimes that matches up, but really a lot of it is the tip of the iceberg. There's so much going on under the surface that makes things way more complex than we can appreciate. It means we miss when underperforming players are doing better, and also sometimes we might argue players are doing better than they actually are.


If there's one lesson from threads like these, it's that maybe we should chill out on rushing to make judgements with a club that has had unprecedented success these last few years. I'm not saying don't call a spade a spade, whether you'd be right or wrong there'd be a discussion to be had. Just maybe don't jump in to say that the spade will never be a useful tool in our locker at every opportunity.

Do they look silly though?

They had an initial reaction
That reaction is proved wrong
They hold their hands up

I neither commented on him good or bad but other who may have well, no one is infalible and can be wrong, personally I have never liked the told you so attitude in hindsight

Only the contrary who won't admit they were wrong look silly everyone else not so in my eyes

 

[Shaelumstash]

Reading through this thread, quite a few are looking a tad silly now.


This thread is actually a good insight into the psychology of many posters. When we weren't doing well, people were looking for something or someone to blame. They associated our success with the outgoing Arteta, and the failings with the incoming Lillo. Many posts were lacking in thought, and the ones that didn't were lacking in insight.

But the truth is, nobody really knew what either did. We know bits and pieces, but not really much. Even now, I'd say the same. Chances are, they both have had positive impacts, but ultimately the buck stops at Pep, good and bad.

In fairness, it's no different to a player thread. Most don't really know the depth of what they critique. Some do, but they're rare. They call what they see, and in fairness, sometimes that matches up, but really a lot of it is the tip of the iceberg. There's so much going on under the surface that makes things way more complex than we can appreciate. It means we miss when underperforming players are doing better, and also sometimes we might argue players are doing better than they actually are.


If there's one lesson from threads like these, it's that maybe we should chill out on rushing to make judgements with a club that has had unprecedented success these last few years. I'm not saying don't call a spade a spade, whether you'd be right or wrong there'd be a discussion to be had. Just maybe don't jump in to say that the spade will never be a useful tool in our locker at every opportunity.

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing, but I actually think a lot of the criticism from early in the season has turned out to be completely justified.

We were playing with two holding midfielders (a tactic Lillo is renowned for) our results were terrible, and our performances even worse.

We’d stopped pressing, we were slow in possession, everything was square and backwards, it was genuinely boring to watch.

Then in November, everything changed. We went back to one holding midfielder started pressing much more and our tempo in possession was so much better and we won 25 on the bounce or whatever it was.

Pep said himself around November he didn’t like the way we were playing. He didn’t “recognise” the team.

Arrigho Sacchi spoke out about his conversations with Pep at this time that we’d stopped pressing and needed to get our tempo back, go back to what made us successful.

Pep Guardiola's private phone call that relaunched Man City's title charge

Former Italy coach Arrigo Saachi reveals he told the Spaniard to start pressing again earlier in the campaign

www.mirror.co.uk

Perhaps Lillo wasn’t entirely to blame for our early season form. But it would be a huge stretch to say he’s responsible for the turnaround since November.

If anything, the evidence points towards our change of fortunes this season being down to going back to what worked before Lillo arrived. And signing Ruben Dias ;-)

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Juanma Lillo has a lot to do with City's successful season. He has asked Guardiola several questions and his influence is reflected in the team. The use of a double pivot, the management of having less time on the ball, the improvement in losing the ball where they want.

We don’t play with a double pivot. We did earlier in the season and that was holding us back. We have deployed it now and again (Leicester away) since but sparingly and we look much better since we’ve changed from that.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Do they look silly though?

They had an initial reaction
That reaction is proved wrong
They hold their hands up

I neither commented on him good or bad but other who may have well, no one is infalible and can be wrong, personally I have never liked the told you so attitude in hindsight

Only the contrary who won't admit they were wrong look silly everyone else not so in my eyes

People aren’t proved wrong if they were right at the time. Subsequent changes in anything don’t mean people weren’t right about something at the time they were happening.

The only people proved wrong are the ones who say things will never change.

 

[Shaelumstash]

We don’t play with a double pivot. We did earlier in the season and that was holding us back. We have deployed it now and again (Leicester away) since but sparingly and we look much better since we’ve changed from that.

I totally agree.

In fairness in the second half of the first leg against PSG and in the second leg, we played two holding midfielders.

The difference from early season though, is that we played two pressing midfielders in front of them (DeBruyne and Bernado) so we were still able to press high up the pitch, which is when we’re at our best.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

We don’t play with a double pivot. We did earlier in the season and that was holding us back. We have deployed it now and again (Leicester away) since but sparingly and we look much better since we’ve changed from that.

I actually don’t think we play with a pivot as much now. It’s more like a flat four across the midfield, which sets us up as a 4-4-2 when out of possession.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing, but I actually think a lot of the criticism from early in the season has turned out to be completely justified.

We were playing with two holding midfielders (a tactic Lillo is renowned for) our results were terrible, and our performances even worse.

We’d stopped pressing, we were slow in possession, everything was square and backwards, it was genuinely boring to watch.

Then in November, everything changed. We went back to one holding midfielder started pressing much more and our tempo in possession was so much better and we won 25 on the bounce or whatever it was.

Pep said himself around November he didn’t like the way we were playing. He didn’t “recognise” the team.

Arrigho Sacchi spoke out about his conversations with Pep at this time that we’d stopped pressing and needed to get our tempo back, go back to what made us successful.

Pep Guardiola's private phone call that relaunched Man City's title charge

Former Italy coach Arrigo Saachi reveals he told the Spaniard to start pressing again earlier in the campaign

www.mirror.co.uk

Perhaps Lillo wasn’t entirely to blame for our early season form. But it would be a huge stretch to say he’s responsible for the turnaround since November.

If anything, the evidence points towards our change of fortunes this season being down to going back to what worked before Lillo arrived. And signing Ruben Dias ;-)

And having few injuries.

 

[urban genie]

People aren’t proved wrong if they were right at the time. Subsequent changes in anything don’t mean people weren’t right about something at the time they were happening.

The only people proved wrong are the ones who say things will never change.

The main point is the told you so attitude we get on the main forum anytime we come good, a lot on the main forum seem to revel in lookignback and saying "well don't you look daft now"

I am not a fan of such things

 

[Marvin]

And having few injuries.

MCFC have evolved significantly from the team of the domestic treble winners but I would put that down to the defensive on pitch organisation of Dias and the replacement of Aguero with an extra midfielder which is something forced on the club by age/injury.

Imo the progression of our season is down to fitness. The team that started the season had little physical preparation. It took KDB months to get fit and the player now is unrecognisable to the one who started the season.

This season posed massive demands on the coaches of Premier League teams as they have had to play an unprecedented number of games in a cramped fixture schedule. Some coaches like Klopp completely failed to adapt.

If we had thought out in advance what the effects of a Covid-19 season would be on different sides you would make the following predictions:

1) Those sides who play high tempo pressing games will struggle. Hence Southampton had a great 1st half of the season and then collapsed. Hence Liverpool wrecked.

2) Those sides with very strong squads with 2 players per position would outperform the more limited squads. Hence Man Utd and Manchester City would benefit, and a team like LFC which has a fantastic first XI but weak squad (Origi!) would struggle.

3) The better-coached sides would evolve their tactics to cope with playing 2 games a season for 7 months without rest.

In summary, Covid-19 benefited City because it stressed squad and coaching staff. SOme came up short, City didn't. And for City we made a fantastic signing in Dias and had a surplus of gifted midfielders, and an ageing/injured star striker so the tactical shift to an extra midfielder presented itself. Many coaches though would not have taken this option. The improvement through the season was down to the improvement in the fitness of KDB who really should not have been playing for much of the season.

 

[grim up north]

The problem being some of our supporters think they are highly skilled analysts and tactical genius’s the truth is they are not