Jude Bellingham

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Seen as the media don’t give us great alternative views. Here’s a different take on Liverpool and Klopp. Klopp fluked it, he got very lucky, it was never intended, and here’s why.

The most successful Liverpool system, had 2 - centre backs, 3 - defensive midfielders, 2 - very attacking wing backs, 2 - fast goal scoring inside forwards (not wingers), and a false 9. It was difficult to defend against, because it was unconventional, adaptable to playing counter attacking football one minute, to overloading the centre of the pitch the next.

Some say it was genius, whereas I’m saying it was luck, as with any transfers, there’s an element of luck. But if Klopp had intended this style and his scouting was that good, Liverpool wouldn’t have signed the players they did, recently. The signings of Salah and Mane, allowed them to create a new playing style, and it was never intended.

Salah was signed as a winger. He played as a winger in a 3 or as a 10 in a front two at Roma, with Dzeko as the 9. He was a great player for them, but he was a 15 goal a season player max, not a big goal scorer. Mane was also the same, more of a winger or a 10 at Southampton, however he was also not a big goal scorer, a 10 goal a season player. He was bought for the left wing and Salah for the right.

Initially, these two players didn’t move mountains, why, because they played in the traditional way they were bought for, as wide players. The positive from Klopp is he must’ve seen something in them, so instead of confining them to the wing, he tried them out as old fashioned inside forwards. This gave them more opportunity in front of goal. They could do this, as they already had the personnel to make it work. There number 9 Firminho, was actually a typical false 9, who was good at creating space. Remember how Liverpool fans would defend his scoring record and say he was actually more like an attacking midfielder allowing Salah or Mane opportunities to score. So without actually planning it, they had two nearly identical players, two capable inside forwards with a complimentary false 9. This made for a monster attack, as you’ve got two players capable of scoring 20+ goals upfront, who actually compliment each other.

There was an issue to begin with though, they lacked width, but luckily they had two guys in the squad who were in fact attacking wing backs, with a greater strength going forward, than defending. This gave them the width, but it also meant that the defence was vulnerable, hence the need to play 3 defensive minded midfielders. They struggled with this at first, which is why City shipped 5 goals past them when we met.

The defence was shaky so they went out and bought exactly what they needed at no expense, VVD. Whose real strength, was not defending but his leadership abilities in real time on the pitch, he could organise the DM’s and the wing backs. That guy VVD, who never actually had to defend by the way, because everyone around him, did it for him (which is why no one dribbled past him for ages).

So this all looks great for Klopp so far, but if this was all a genius plan and this is the way he plays his football, then why did he sign typical wingers to replace Mane and not another inside forward? He signed Diaz, a typical winger and then a more versatile winger in Gakpo. But these guys aren’t inside forwards. These guys also don’t have great past goal scoring records. So was/is he hoping they’ll be able to turn out to be inside forwards like Mane? I personally don’t think so. Because If the past Liverpool team was Klopps intended playing style, then why did he also go out and sign Nunez as another replacement for Mane’s goals, a true number 9, but not the false 9 that made the system work before.

The reason he signed Nunez, is he knows that, a goal scoring inside forward is as rare as rocking horse shit and he needs two to make the system work. Last time he got lucky, he found two by accident and created a new system around them, but now, there simply isn’t any out there. The only two players I can think of who could do it, are Foden and Mbappe. Obviously that’s never going to happen. His scouts got lucky with Salah and Mane, they were in fact at the time, just looking for wingers.

The inside forward role is pretty much impossible to coach as a style. You’ve got to have nearly every quality that an attacking player could posses, coupled with great pace and energy. So, Klopp is moving away from this, he’s swapped the false 9, back to a true 9, to try and get the goals back. He’s moved from an inside forward on the left, to a more traditional winger (although he has tried and failed to convert several players in that position). This means Robertson doesn’t have to attack as much anymore to create width, so the left side defensive midfielder can now attack more instead. That was Thiago, but he got injured and since then, they’ve struggled in this department. Which is why they think they need Bellingham.

Salah has continued the inside forward role on the right side, and so TAA has continued the auxiliary full back role on the right, and so the right sided DM continues to defend, but this creates a huge imbalance in the team. One which is easily being exploited.
Then, to add to that, VVD can’t organise the midfield as much anymore, as he doesn’t have 3 deep players, due to the more attacking responsibilities. So, he’s being exposed more, and isn’t actually as good at defending as we thought.

In summary, Klopp got lucky, he signed two wingers with average goal scoring records, who turned out to be identical complementary players, capable of huge amounts of goals. And so he was able to build an unconventional playing style around Salah and Mane. Take one out, and the whole thing starts to fall apart at the seems. Now, he’s in the process of trying to replicate more common, modern day tactics. They think Bellingham is the answer, but he’s not, they need to replace many players now to accommodate a change in style.
 
Last edited:
Benzino said:
Seen as the media don’t give us great alternative views. Here’s a different take on Liverpool and Klopp. Klopp fluked it, he got very lucky, it was never intended, and here’s why.

The most successful Liverpool system, had 2 - centre backs, 3 - defensive midfielders, 2 - very attacking wing backs, 2 - fast goal scoring inside forwards (not wingers), and a false 9. It was difficult to defend against, because it was unconventional, adaptable to playing counter attacking football one minute, to overloading the centre of the pitch the next.

Some say it was genius, whereas I’m saying it was luck, as with any transfers, there’s an element of luck. But if Klopp had intended this style and his scouting was that good, Liverpool wouldn’t have signed the players they did, recently. The signings of Salah and Mane, allowed them to create a new playing style, and it was never intended.

Salah was signed as a winger. He played as a winger in a 3 or as a 10 in a front two at Roma, with Dzeko as the 9. He was a great player for them, but he was a 15 goal a season player max, not a big goal scorer. Mane was also the same, more of a winger or a 10 at Southampton, however he was also not a big goal scorer, a 10 goal a season player. He was bought for the left wing and Salah for the right.

Initially, these two players didn’t move mountains, why, because they played in the traditional way they were bought for, as wide players. The positive from Klopp is he must’ve seen something in them, so instead of confining them to the wing, he tried them out as old fashioned inside forwards. This gave them more opportunity in front of goal. They could do this, as they already had the personnel to make it work. There number 9 Firminho, was actually a typical false 9, who was good at creating space. Remember how Liverpool fans would defend his scoring record and say he was actually more like an attacking midfielder allowing Salah or Mane opportunities to score. So without actually planning it, they had two nearly identical players, two capable inside forwards with a complimentary false 9. This made for a monster attack, as you’ve got two players capable of scoring 20+ goals upfront, who actually compliment each other.

There was an issue to begin with though, they lacked width, but luckily they had two guys in the squad who were in fact attacking wing backs, with a greater strength going forward, than defending. This gave them the width, but it also meant that the defence was vulnerable, hence the need to play 3 defensive minded midfielders. They struggled with this at first, which is why City shipped 5 goals past them when we met.

The defence was shaky so they went out and bought exactly what they needed at no expense, VVD. Whose real strength, was not defending but his leadership abilities in real time on the pitch, he could organise the DM’s and the wing backs. That guy VVD, who never actually had to defend by the way, because everyone around him, did it for him (which is why no one dribbled past him for ages).

So this all looks great for Klopp so far, but if this was all a genius plan and this is the way he plays his football, then why did he sign typical wingers to replace Mane and not another inside forward? He signed Diaz, a typical winger and then a more versatile winger in Gakpo. But these guys aren’t inside forwards. These guys also don’t have great past goal scoring records. So was/is he hoping they’ll be able to turn out to be inside forwards like Mane? I personally don’t think so. Because If the past Liverpool team was Klopps intended playing style, then why did he also go out and sign Nunez as another replacement for Mane’s goals, a true number 9, but not the false 9 that made the system work before.

The reason he signed Nunez, is he knows that, a goal scoring inside forward is as rare as rocking horse shit and he needs two to make the system work. Last time he got lucky, he found two by accident and created a new system around them, but now, there simply isn’t any out there. The only two players I can think of who could do it, are Foden and Mbappe. Obviously that’s never going to happen. His scouts got lucky with Salah and Mane, they were in fact at the time, just looking for wingers.

The inside forward role is pretty much impossible to coach as a style. You’ve got to have nearly every quality that an attacking player could posses, coupled with great pace and energy. So, Klopp is moving away from this, he’s swapped the false 9, back to a true 9, to try and get the goals back. He’s moved from an inside forward on the left, to a more traditional winger (although he has tried and failed to convert several players in that position). This means Robertson doesn’t have to attack as much anymore to create width, so the left side defensive midfielder can now attack more instead. That was Thiago, but he got injured and since then, they’ve struggled in this department. Which is why they think they need Bellingham.

Salah has continued the inside forward role on the right side, and so TAA has continued the auxiliary full back role on the right, and so the right sided DM continues to defend, but this creates a huge imbalance in the team. One which is easily being exploited.
Then, to add to that, VVD can’t organise the midfield as much anymore, as he doesn’t have 3 deep players, due to the more attacking responsibilities. So, he’s being exposed more, and isn’t actually as good at defending as we thought.

In summary, Klopp got lucky, he signed two wingers with average goal scoring records, who turned out to be identical complementary players, capable of huge amounts of goals. And so he was able to build an unconventional playing style around Salah and Mane. Take one out, and the whole thing starts to fall apart at the seems. Now, he’s in the process of trying to replicate more common, modern day tactics. They think Bellingham is the answer, but he’s not, they need to replace many players now to accommodate a change in style.
Click to expand...

You might be right but less Tolstoy in future
 


Craigy Boy continuing to double down. I wanna believe him but I just find it hard because he's so fking arrogant about it all. It's hard to work out. He's not an idiot - and he's putting his entire rep on the line over this. That's no small wager because whatever you say about the guy (and I can't stand him), you have to acknowledge the work he's put in building that channel.

That post by Benzino is amazing btw. He absolutely nailed it.
 
Jack Hackett said:
To be honest I haven’t read the whole thread but everyone seems to think he’ll be a Liverpool player next season?
Click to expand...
Everyone thought haaland would be a Madrid player.

Just because a lot of people say it doesn’t make it true.

Maybe he goes there, maybe he comes here, we don’t know yet. Methinks the desperation still coming from all Liverpool mouth pieces is a sign that it’s not going the way they really want it to
 
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Benzino said:
Seen as the media don’t give us great alternative views. Here’s a different take on Liverpool and Klopp. Klopp fluked it, he got very lucky, it was never intended, and here’s why.

The most successful Liverpool system, had 2 - centre backs, 3 - defensive midfielders, 2 - very attacking wing backs, 2 - fast goal scoring inside forwards (not wingers), and a false 9. It was difficult to defend against, because it was unconventional, adaptable to playing counter attacking football one minute, to overloading the centre of the pitch the next.

Some say it was genius, whereas I’m saying it was luck, as with any transfers, there’s an element of luck. But if Klopp had intended this style and his scouting was that good, Liverpool wouldn’t have signed the players they did, recently. The signings of Salah and Mane, allowed them to create a new playing style, and it was never intended.

Salah was signed as a winger. He played as a winger in a 3 or as a 10 in a front two at Roma, with Dzeko as the 9. He was a great player for them, but he was a 15 goal a season player max, not a big goal scorer. Mane was also the same, more of a winger or a 10 at Southampton, however he was also not a big goal scorer, a 10 goal a season player. He was bought for the left wing and Salah for the right.

Initially, these two players didn’t move mountains, why, because they played in the traditional way they were bought for, as wide players. The positive from Klopp is he must’ve seen something in them, so instead of confining them to the wing, he tried them out as old fashioned inside forwards. This gave them more opportunity in front of goal. They could do this, as they already had the personnel to make it work. There number 9 Firminho, was actually a typical false 9, who was good at creating space. Remember how Liverpool fans would defend his scoring record and say he was actually more like an attacking midfielder allowing Salah or Mane opportunities to score. So without actually planning it, they had two nearly identical players, two capable inside forwards with a complimentary false 9. This made for a monster attack, as you’ve got two players capable of scoring 20+ goals upfront, who actually compliment each other.

There was an issue to begin with though, they lacked width, but luckily they had two guys in the squad who were in fact attacking wing backs, with a greater strength going forward, than defending. This gave them the width, but it also meant that the defence was vulnerable, hence the need to play 3 defensive minded midfielders. They struggled with this at first, which is why City shipped 5 goals past them when we met.

The defence was shaky so they went out and bought exactly what they needed at no expense, VVD. Whose real strength, was not defending but his leadership abilities in real time on the pitch, he could organise the DM’s and the wing backs. That guy VVD, who never actually had to defend by the way, because everyone around him, did it for him (which is why no one dribbled past him for ages).

So this all looks great for Klopp so far, but if this was all a genius plan and this is the way he plays his football, then why did he sign typical wingers to replace Mane and not another inside forward? He signed Diaz, a typical winger and then a more versatile winger in Gakpo. But these guys aren’t inside forwards. These guys also don’t have great past goal scoring records. So was/is he hoping they’ll be able to turn out to be inside forwards like Mane? I personally don’t think so. Because If the past Liverpool team was Klopps intended playing style, then why did he also go out and sign Nunez as another replacement for Mane’s goals, a true number 9, but not the false 9 that made the system work before.

The reason he signed Nunez, is he knows that, a goal scoring inside forward is as rare as rocking horse shit and he needs two to make the system work. Last time he got lucky, he found two by accident and created a new system around them, but now, there simply isn’t any out there. The only two players I can think of who could do it, are Foden and Mbappe. Obviously that’s never going to happen. His scouts got lucky with Salah and Mane, they were in fact at the time, just looking for wingers.

The inside forward role is pretty much impossible to coach as a style. You’ve got to have nearly every quality that an attacking player could posses, coupled with great pace and energy. So, Klopp is moving away from this, he’s swapped the false 9, back to a true 9, to try and get the goals back. He’s moved from an inside forward on the left, to a more traditional winger (although he has tried and failed to convert several players in that position). This means Robertson doesn’t have to attack as much anymore to create width, so the left side defensive midfielder can now attack more instead. That was Thiago, but he got injured and since then, they’ve struggled in this department. Which is why they think they need Bellingham.

Salah has continued the inside forward role on the right side, and so TAA has continued the auxiliary full back role on the right, and so the right sided DM continues to defend, but this creates a huge imbalance in the team. One which is easily being exploited.
Then, to add to that, VVD can’t organise the midfield as much anymore, as he doesn’t have 3 deep players, due to the more attacking responsibilities. So, he’s being exposed more, and isn’t actually as good at defending as we thought.

In summary, Klopp got lucky, he signed two wingers with average goal scoring records, who turned out to be identical complementary players, capable of huge amounts of goals. And so he was able to build an unconventional playing style around Salah and Mane. Take one out, and the whole thing starts to fall apart at the seems. Now, he’s in the process of trying to replicate more common, modern day tactics. They think Bellingham is the answer, but he’s not, they need to replace many players now to accommodate a change in style.
Click to expand...
Bravo mate. Very insightful and an accurate account of the current state of play at dipperland.

Lucky bastard is Klopp. accidentally stumbling on both mane and salah. Madness to think he let the former go without a fight. Maybe he thought any winger could play the inside forward role. It appears not.
 
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