Judging Liverpool - How far away are we?

[sboroMCFC]

I think it is about so much more than the players on the pitch. To challenge at the top we need a complete attitude change and a winning mentality installed throughout the club from top to bottom and top quality coaching and tactics. Once we get that then we can be up there.

 

[staffs_blue]

I reckon we are 2-3 world class or top class players away.

Probably a centre back(Carragher),driving midfielder(Gerrard) and striker(Torres).

 

[jo_is_superman_]

I reckon we are 2-3 world class or top class players away.

Probably a centre back(Carragher),driving midfielder(Gerrard) and striker(Torres).

this exactly

 

[Thanx4Knives]

Liverpool fan, here in peace. I don't believe it should take City too long to break into the top 4 or even make it a top 5 but by the term 'top 4' I assume you are talking about Champions League qualification? City are just a couple of players short of getting to and staying in the top 6 in the PL on a regular basis in my opinion, maybe a decent run in UEFA Cup this season will stand the team in good stead for future CL campaigns. All the ingredients seem to be there, on and off the pitch, so play like they did today in most away games and I think it would be a cert for them to be competing at the higher level. Whether Hughes is the man to take City to new heights I don't really know tbh. He is still on a learning curve himself, so far as pitting his wits against Europes finest is concerned, and now he has the players and the spending power he needs to use his nous a lot more as his teams are now expected to sweep all before them instead of scrapping for a point here and there like when he was at Blackburn.

What do you think about the title challenge now mate with yourselves and us still to play them kunts?

 

[blue_robb]

"At least 3-4 transfer windows". (c) Lesley Mark Hughes.

 

[mcfc_nick]

if we had gerrard and torres instead of them we'd be up there!

 

[Falling Star]

For every good player they have, theres a shit player to match e.g torres - Kuyt, Alonso - Lucas, Gerard - Babel, Carra - Dossena. Rafa has lost the plot, spending all summer going after Barry then over spending on Keane only to bin him off to spuds again 6 months later.

With a different manager they could be even better.

Regarding the good player-shit player comparison, I think most squads are in the same boat, even the rags. Kuyt is much maligned but he is a great squad player and 100% committed to the cause, a trait sadly lacking in many players these days, if Rafa could replace him with top quality with the same attitude then I'm sure he would but good old Dirk keeps seeing supposedly better players off. Babel is seen by many as a work in progress still but given the boo boys mentality at Anfield currently it wouldn't surprise me to see him leave in the summer and make a good go of it elsewhere, talented player in my humble opinion. Dossena has been in and out of the side and is locked in a battle with an injury-prone Aurelio for the LB berth but the jury is still out on him. Nail on the head regarding the Barry/Keane comment.

Different manager? hmm not so sure who could come in and change the cautious mentality instilled by Rafa and there is the danger that if Benitez left then so would the Spanish contingent of Torres, Alonso, Reina, Riera, Arbeloa which would rip the heart out of the current 1st team squad, not to mention the 'Spanish-speaking' Mascherano.

 

[Thanx4Knives]

For every good player they have, theres a shit player to match e.g torres - Kuyt, Alonso - Lucas, Gerard - Babel, Carra - Dossena. Rafa has lost the plot, spending all summer going after Barry then over spending on Keane only to bin him off to spuds again 6 months later.

With a different manager they could be even better.

Regarding the good player-shit player comparison, I think most squads are in the same boat, even the rags. Kuyt is much maligned but he is a great squad player and 100% committed to the cause, a trait sadly lacking in many players these days, if Rafa could replace him with top quality with the same attitude then I'm sure he would but good old Dirk keeps seeing supposedly better players off. Babel is seen by many as a work in progress still but given the boo boys mentality at Anfield currently it wouldn't surprise me to see him leave in the summer and make a good go of it elsewhere, talented player in my humble opinion. Dossena has been in and out of the side and is locked in a battle with an injury-prone Aurelio for the LB berth but the jury is still out on him. Nail on the head regarding the Barry/Keane comment.

Different manager? hmm not so sure who could come in and change the cautious mentality instilled by Rafa and there is the danger that if Benitez left then so would the Spanish contingent of Torres, Alonso, Reina, Riera, Arbeloa which would rip the heart out of the current 1st team squad, not to mention the 'Spanish-speaking' Mascherano.

Fair enough mate, but Kuyt and Babel arent wide players and why Rafa refuse's to buy natural wide players is beyond me, he could have easily had Valencia (Wigan) or someone of that calibre but didnt, and although Riera plays on the Left he dosent stay out wide and get to the byline to cross it.

 

[Falling Star]

For every good player they have, theres a shit player to match e.g torres - Kuyt, Alonso - Lucas, Gerard - Babel, Carra - Dossena. Rafa has lost the plot, spending all summer going after Barry then over spending on Keane only to bin him off to spuds again 6 months later.

With a different manager they could be even better.

Regarding the good player-shit player comparison, I think most squads are in the same boat, even the rags. Kuyt is much maligned but he is a great squad player and 100% committed to the cause, a trait sadly lacking in many players these days, if Rafa could replace him with top quality with the same attitude then I'm sure he would but good old Dirk keeps seeing supposedly better players off. Babel is seen by many as a work in progress still but given the boo boys mentality at Anfield currently it wouldn't surprise me to see him leave in the summer and make a good go of it elsewhere, talented player in my humble opinion. Dossena has been in and out of the side and is locked in a battle with an injury-prone Aurelio for the LB berth but the jury is still out on him. Nail on the head regarding the Barry/Keane comment.

Different manager? hmm not so sure who could come in and change the cautious mentality instilled by Rafa and there is the danger that if Benitez left then so would the Spanish contingent of Torres, Alonso, Reina, Riera, Arbeloa which would rip the heart out of the current 1st team squad, not to mention the 'Spanish-speaking' Mascherano.

Fair enough mate, but Kuyt and Babel arent wide players and why Rafa refuse's to buy natural wide players is beyond me, he could have easily had Valencia (Wigan) or someone of that calibre but didnt, and although Riera plays on the Left he dosent stay out wide and get to the byline to cross it.

By their own admissions Babel and Kuyt both prefer to play down the centre so you are totally correct on that point but Kuyt is not good enough to play as the lead striker at a top club in my opinion and Babel is too inexperienced/erratic at this time, not to mention a certain Torres being the obvious 1st choice. Benitez doesn't really go for out and out wingers, he doesn't think they work hard enough for the team and see's them as a luxury, he would probably complain about Ronaldo's lack of defensive qualities if he had him! Thats just his way. Rafa prefers a solitary striker with someone playing off him in a 4-4-1-1 type formation with 2 defensive midfielders and hard-working 'wide players' (like Kuyt) as opposed to proper wingers, he would play two full backs down each flank rather than trust a 'lazy winger'. Pennant wasn't trusted enough and he is a typical lazy winger, highly rated Chilean international Mark Gonzales went the same way, as did Owen's transfer makeweight Antonio Nunez and, eventually, Harry Kewell. The result is a team thats hard to beat but struggles to break sides down at home and that brings me nicely on to your other question about our title hopes! I honestly think the title race is over and probably has been since the rags went 8 points clear, I predicted todays draw btw, but if we can keep the gap from widening until at least the showdown on March 14th at Old Trafford then we can still hope and pray for them to blow up as unlikely as it seems. Then again we would probably blow the game at OT anyway with negative tactics even if the gap was 3 points. Rafa = Frustration

 

[masterwig]

I think it is more productive to compare ourselves to Villa.

Man for man I'd say we are at least even. But their performances have been miles ahead of ours. We have to look at why that is. It is easy to say the difference is simply that O'Neill is a better manager but I think that perhaps the difference is more complex than that. O'Neill has had more time at the club to mould the team. Having never been involved in professional football I couldn't say how long it takes to put major changes in place but it may well take longer than 8 months. Sven got off to a flyer and that has possibly hurt Hughes' reputation. However, I think that in those glorious early days with Sven we were a very fragile team and rode our luck a lot. Once the luck started to go against us and injuries etc mounted up we could all see how weak the team really was.

I have no doubt that Hughes is addressing our problems and he has bought well. What we have to start seeing is some consistent performances. I believe we have the players to be higher up the table. Everyone is questioning Hughes' tactical knowledge and ability to motivate players and he and the squad need to start showing what they are made of. He has had time to organise the squad and has been allowed to bring in lots of players so we should start seeing big improvements. Hopefully this week is the start of that. Next week at West Ham will be a tough test and will tell us more about the team than today's draw. Unless we start seeing some improvement the pressure will stay on.