Judging Liverpool - How far away are we?

[BobKowalski]

In terms of players perhaps not that far. In terms of attitude, ethos, that magic 5% which is the difference between winning the big trophies and making up the numbers about a million miles. That said with enough financial backing and employing the right people the ground can be made up fairly quickly.

Alternatively we can build solidly and slowly and in a few years we will (with a bit of luck) be doing what Villa are doing. We will still be a good way off actually winning anything major but we will have fewer bad days and everyone will like us because we did it 'the proper way' ie without upsetting the 'big 4' or Platini.

Personally I hope ADUG are up for the challenge and mixing it with the best in Europe and saying bollox to this slow and steady business but we will see in the summer I guess

 

[goat boy]

I think it is more productive to compare ourselves to Villa.

Man for man I'd say we are at least even. But their performances have been miles ahead of ours. We have to look at why that is. It is easy to say the difference is simply that O'Neill is a better manager but I think that perhaps the difference is more complex than that. O'Neill has had more time at the club to mould the team. Having never been involved in professional football I couldn't say how long it takes to put major changes in place but it may well take longer than 8 months. Sven got off to a flyer and that has possibly hurt Hughes' reputation. However, I think that in those glorious early days with Sven we were a very fragile team and rode our luck a lot. Once the luck started to go against us and injuries etc mounted up we could all see how weak the team really was.

Personally, I expect the length of time you're referring to is about the length of time that it'll take the team to gel. In all seriousness, it still hasn't happened- I think it takes years, which is of some concern given that there will probably tend to be a fairly high turnover of players in the next couple of seasons. As their has been for many years at City.

When you get to the point of adding a player or two each season, then you're set. If you continually buy 4-6 players per window then you've got no chance of ever getting a set of lads together that understand each other's game. This is where Villa, Everton, the red filth and even Chelsea are streets ahead of City. Liverpool and Arsenal are probably in better positions in that respect, but Rafa seems to tinker and Wenger continually lets his most successful players go when they ask for 'market rate' contracts.

@ Falling Star, I always had the Liverpool system as something like this:

GK

RB CB CB LB

DM DM

AMR AMC AML

ST

Perhaps with the likes of Alonso given a defensive midfield job but with a touch more freedom to move forward. Gerrard as the AMC, with the likes of Babel, Benayoun and Kuyt being asked to play on the 'wings'. Wingers is actually a misnomer here, as the AM 3 is very narrow, and you don't seem to see the FBs pushing on so much.

IMO this makes Liverpool a bit of a one trick pony, so if you come up against a team like City which is generally very good at dealing with stuff coming through the middle but very easily embarrased by attacks from the flanks (look how you scored), you'll tend to struggle. The red filth's succes is built on being able to score using a wide vareity of different types of 'play'. Ie the high ball/ direct route down the middle, crosses into the box from wide, counter attacks, through balls into the channels, etc etc. They're better at exposing a weakness in a defence. The twats.

 

[Marvin]

You can't turn the City team who ended last season into a Champions league team in 2/3 of a season

The turnover in players is unprecedented. It's one thing adding a couple of players to a decent team,. quite another to totally re-build the team, and hope to be succesful inside of a season.

No one has attempted to do what City have done. there is no comparison, but better to compare to Villa than to Liverpool

I read earlier in the year that In O'Neil's first season he went 20 League games with just 2 wins, and it's only now in his 3rd season that he's getting somewhere

However, if City can finish this season strongly, I think we will be a top 6 team next season.

We have to get to Villa, Everton's level first of all - which means being able to go away from home regularly and pick up results

 

[Balti]

Only consistency separates us from them methinks.

Within 3 years we will be there.

 

[Bunk]

A long way from the finished article. Far too reliant on Torres and Gerrard and they are sorely lacking depth on their squad.

The manager's a bit of a nutter too.

 

[blueonblue]

We are one person short of a great team............that being a manager

All great teams are a blend, pick any you want from history, and I guarantee that of the players in there you can find "Better" players in almost all their possitions at that time Clough did it twice with what can only be summed up as average players with a couple of gems thrown in.

As an example, the 68/69 team, (And for my money the best footballing side ever, I may be bias but I would put them against any team up to present day )

Ken Mullhern (Harry Dowd) Good but not even rated as above average
Tony Book, in his mid thirties, played part time and was a bricklayer by trade
Glynn Pardo, had been on the edges in various positions at the club
Mick Doyle a converted center forward
George Hesslop, certainly not top of anyones list, everton let him go
Alan Oakes, never played for England, one of the gems
Mike Summerbee, again nothing that special before we got him
Colin Bell, The gem, bought from Bury
Franny Lee, a barrel of a player,went on to play for England
Neil Young, scored most of the goals but not rated that highly
Tony Coleman, liked to drink & fight, certainly not rated anywhere till us

Dave Connor has to be included as he was a key part of the squad.

Now you can find on paper, better players for everyone of those (Except Bell), look at Forest, Liverpool, or even the 66 world cup team, you will find the same.

We have a squad of players more than good enough, we have a few gems, what we need is somebody to blend them into a team.

 

[Anonymous]

We are one person short of a great team............that being a manager

All great teams are a blend, pick any you want from history, and I guarantee that of the players in there you can find "Better" players in almost all their possitions at that time Clough did it twice with what can only be summed up as average players with a couple of gems thrown in.

As an example, the 68/69 team, (And for my money the best footballing side ever, I may be bias but I would put them against any team up to present day )

Ken Mullhern (Harry Dowd) Good but not even rated as above average
Tony Book, in his mid thirties, played part time and was a bricklayer by trade
Glynn Pardo, had been on the edges in various positions at the club
Mick Doyle a converted center forward
George Hesslop, certainly not top of anyones list, everton let him go
Alan Oakes, never played for England, one of the gems
Mike Summerbee, again nothing that special before we got him
Colin Bell, The gem, bought from Bury
Franny Lee, a barrel of a player,went on to play for England
Neil Young, scored most of the goals but not rated that highly
Tony Coleman, liked to drink & fight, certainly not rated anywhere till us

Dave Connor has to be included as he was a key part of the squad.

Now you can find on paper, better players for everyone of those (Except Bell), look at Forest, Liverpool, or even the 66 world cup team, you will find the same.

We have a squad of players more than good enough, we have a few gems, what we need is somebody to blend them into a team.

I disagree completely. The good old days have zero relevance to football these days. At the very top it's about having top class players who can perform at a level, and at an intensity, week in and week out.

I've read a few people on here giving Hughes shit about his comments after the game yesterday, but I think he was spot on. The skill and ability we know we have in the likes of Robbie, Bellamy, and Ireland, but we need them to perform consistently, and we need the strength and physical presence to compete with teams over 90 mins plus.

 

[LazyArse]

I'm sure once you buy the league you'll be right up there, but it will mean nothing. You might hate us but we are a self made big club and will always have a bigger standing in the game.

 

[Balti]

I'm sure once you buy the league you'll be right up there, but it will mean nothing. You might hate us but we are a self made big club and will always have a bigger standing in the game.

That's cos you is massive innit.

 

[Thanx4Knives]

I'm sure once you buy the league you'll be right up there, but it will mean nothing. You might hate us but we are a self made big club and will always have a bigger standing in the game.

Rooney 30 million, Rio 30 million, Berbatoss 30 million, carrick and harcrock 20 million!

Buying the league you say?