Keir Starmer

[The perfect fumble]

I fully agree on this. There is nothing to be gained by Starmer on this - its not a vote winner. The tories will as you say keep poking at it as it plays to their idiot base. But Starmer is adept at not giving them oxygen. See his total lack of brexit comments to date. He knows what they want to talk about it and he doesn't take the bait.

I agree, Starmer is playing a poor hand well, but it is still a poor hand.

He'll never enter Downing Street.

 

[Rascal]

I agree, Starmer is playing a poor hand well, but it is still a poor hand.

He'll never enter Downing Street.

I think he is playing a poor hand badly, he has ostracised the left and the handling of the report into central office and the pay outs has been nothing short of shameful.

As for him not entering Downing street, i do not think he will get the chance to fight an election. The Labour party as it stands is finished, it is too London centric, it is too liberal and it is too middle class. It has morphed from a Democratic Socialist party to a Social Democratic party and i just can't see the left of the party holding their nose and voting for Starmer because the feelings of betrayal run deep and Starmer rather than deal with those responsible by kicking them out has paid them off. There are people who actively campaigned against Labour still in the party and halfwits like Kinnock and Austin make me sick.

The one thing on Starmers side is he wont get a rough ride from the media, simply because he is no threat to the establishment and a Starmer led Labour party i expect will not be harsh on corporate interests because they paid for his campaign to be labour leader.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I think he is playing a poor hand badly, he has ostracised the left and the handling of the report into central office and the pay outs has been nothing short of shameful.

As for him not entering Downing street, i do not think he will get the chance to fight an election. The Labour party as it stands is finished, it is too London centric, it is too liberal and it is too middle class. It has morphed from a Democratic Socialist party to a Social Democratic party and i just can't see the left of the party holding their nose and voting for Starmer because the feelings of betrayal run deep and Starmer rather than deal with those responsible by kicking them out has paid them off. There are people who actively campaigned against Labour still in the party and halfwits like Kinnock and Austin make me sick.

The one thing on Starmers side is he wont get a rough ride from the media, simply because he is no threat to the establishment and a Starmer led Labour party i expect will not be harsh on corporate interests because they paid for his campaign to be labour leader.

He's actually playing his hand quite well, considering his aim is to become a least-worst tory party by the next GE.

 

[Rascal]

He's actually playing his hand quite well, considering his aim is to become a least-worst tory party by the next GE.

Remember a few years ago now people thought all the parties were the same, that's where we are heading now i think.

You can have a tory party or you can vote for a tory party.

 

[blueinsa]

There has never been much more than a fag paper between the parties.

Red or Blue, the lives of the vast majority of us change not a fucking jot.

People homeless, drink and drug addicts, too many on the dole, not enough money for services etc etc etc.

Cute is thinking there is a real choice everytime we go to the ballot box.

 

[mexico1970]

Labour died as a party when they switched their allegiances from the then working class to any minority group that would wave a flag for them. They have virtue signalled themselves to death and now they have political cancer that there is no coming back from.

 

[Tb1981]

Labour died as a party when they switched their allegiances from the then working class to any minority group that would wave a flag for them. They have virtue signalled themselves to death and now they have political cancer that there is no coming back from.

Bang on
Labour have decided they wish to have a march or a protest for every minority group going (noble granted and probably right)
Problem is these people already vote labour so they basically appeal to the same people all the time
They don’t ever appear to want to win the working class/middle class votes
They don’t appear want to make average people’s lives better

 

[Ban-jani]

I think he is playing a poor hand badly, he has ostracised the left and the handling of the report into central office and the pay outs has been nothing short of shameful.

As for him not entering Downing street, i do not think he will get the chance to fight an election. The Labour party as it stands is finished, it is too London centric, it is too liberal and it is too middle class. It has morphed from a Democratic Socialist party to a Social Democratic party and i just can't see the left of the party holding their nose and voting for Starmer because the feelings of betrayal run deep and Starmer rather than deal with those responsible by kicking them out has paid them off. There are people who actively campaigned against Labour still in the party and halfwits like Kinnock and Austin make me sick.

The one thing on Starmers side is he wont get a rough ride from the media, simply because he is no threat to the establishment and a Starmer led Labour party i expect will not be harsh on corporate interests because they paid for his campaign to be labour leader.

Why wouldn’t you support him though?

His current pledges/policies include several socialist policies and it will be the most left wing government in decades if he gets in, even more than this Tory government, nationalising several industries.

You’re going to cut off your nose to spite your face.

He does need to drop the identity politics though and ridiculous idiots like Dawn Butler.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

There has never been much more than a fag paper between the parties.

Red or Blue, the lives of the vast majority of us change not a fucking jot.

People homeless, drink and drug addicts, too many on the dole, not enough money for services etc etc etc.

Cute is thinking there is a real choice everytime we go to the ballot box.

Once the Labour mindset changed from compromising and getting 40/50% of what they could all agree on voted through with the compromise of being closer to centre so having 50% of tory lite stuff that wasn't great to the left of the party but overall made them big progress, to "we're not going to compromise at all and it's either 100% our way or we will sacrifice power and give everyone 100% Tory", then they just became nothing more than a protest movement and think tank that's only power is usurping democracy and spreading their ideology directly through institutions, virtue signalling, campaigns and protests to harm ordinary working people.

The problem is, the further you disillusion the centre-left and push them more and more to the centre, the further you have to go to coax them back to vote for you, because the normal everyday voter isn't going to lurch and take huge risks and invoke radical change, they're too fearful it will disrupt normal, everyday life they have to contend with and damage the position they've worked for, or make them worse off.

 

[joe123]

Why wouldn’t you support him though?

His current pledges/policies include several socialist policies and it will be the most left wing government in decades if he gets in, even more than this Tory government, nationalising several industries.

You’re going to cut off your nose to spite your face.

He does need to drop the identity politics though and ridiculous idiots like Dawn Butler.

I do wonder how many of the far left of Labour would actually vote for someone other than Labour. I can’t imagine it will be that many as most are just sick of the Tories. At the other side of the party, I didn’t like Corbyn, but when it came down to it, I still voted Labour. Based on the 2017 and 2019 numbers, 2 million Labour voters didn’t.

 

[Ban-jani]

I do wonder how many of the far left of Labour would actually vote for someone other than Labour. I can’t imagine it will be that many as most are just sick of the Torres. At the other side of the party, I didn’t like Corbyn, but when it came down to it, I still voted Labour. Based on the 2017 and 2019 numbers, 2 million Labour voters didn’t.

Exactly, surely Starmer‘s Labour is a better option than the Tories for a socialist?

Nationalising rail, utilities and mail etc. is pretty much what Corbyn wanted to do in 2017.

He went further to the left when the Tories started nicking his public spending pledges.

I just can’t fathom it, I’d rather something closer to me than, who shares 80% of what I want, than those who I deem the opposite to my views.

Two points I will make:

1) I think Rascal and his ilk will still vote Labour when they’re faced with it at the ballot

2) I think this is a personal battle rather than an ideological one within Labour, let’s not forget Starmer was a Shadow Cabinet member and supported Corbyn’s policies. His difference is that he’s a staunch remainer rather than Corbyn being a closet one. Let’s not forget that Corbyn appealed to the middle class liberals more than traditional working class Labour heartlands too.

 

[joe123]

Exactly, surely Starmer‘s Labour is a better option than the Tories for a socialist?

Nationalising rail, utilities and mail etc. is pretty much what Corbyn wanted to do in 2017.

He went further to the left when the Tories started bucking his public spending pledges.

I just can’t fathom it, I’d rather something closer to me than, who shares 80% of what I want, than those who I deem the opposite to my views.

Two points I will make:

1) I think Rascal and his ilk will still vote Labour when they’re faced with it at the ballot

2) I think this is a personal battle rather than an ideological one within Labour, let’s not forget Starmer was a Shadow Cabinet member and supported Corbyn’s policies. His difference is that he’s a staunch remainer rather than Corbyn being a closet one. Let’s not forget that Corbyn appealed to the middle class liberals more than traditional working class Labour heartlands too.

Coincidentally enough I just read (in reference to the US election)... ‘voting isn’t a marriage, you’re not waiting for “the one”. It’s public transport and you take the bus that will get you closest to where you want to be’

 

[The perfect fumble]

I think he is playing a poor hand badly, he has ostracised the left and the handling of the report into central office and the pay outs has been nothing short of shameful.

As for him not entering Downing street, i do not think he will get the chance to fight an election. The Labour party as it stands is finished, it is too London centric, it is too liberal and it is too middle class. It has morphed from a Democratic Socialist party to a Social Democratic party and i just can't see the left of the party holding their nose and voting for Starmer because the feelings of betrayal run deep and Starmer rather than deal with those responsible by kicking them out has paid them off. There are people who actively campaigned against Labour still in the party and halfwits like Kinnock and Austin make me sick.

The one thing on Starmers side is he wont get a rough ride from the media, simply because he is no threat to the establishment and a Starmer led Labour party i expect will not be harsh on corporate interests because they paid for his campaign to be labour leader.

We're talking apples and oranges.

I agree he's treated the left appallingly, so what are the left going to do about it?

One of two things.....

Nothing.

Or leave.

Both of which suit him.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Remember a few years ago now people thought all the parties were the same, that's where we are heading now i think.

You can have a tory party or you can vote for a tory party.

That just about sums it up, but when I say Starmer has played a poor hand well, despite heading a party he doesn't much like, he has managed to position himself with Woking woman as a kind of 21st Century Ken Clarke, without the charm, and he looks quite statesman like opposite the incompetent, bumbling, populist.

 

[Fame Monster]

Labour died as a party when they switched their allegiances from the then working class to any minority group that would wave a flag for them. They have virtue signalled themselves to death and now they have political cancer that there is no coming back from.

They have too many groups within the party who have polar opposite beliefs.

There's no way you can unite a party of trans-rights activists with hardcore feminists, the working class with the anti-working class, Jews with 'anti-zionists', the brexiteers with the remainers, the defund the police crew with the law-and-order types, the patriots with the Britain haters, the communists with the PFI types.

Labour's not a broad church any more: it's a party of different religions and that's why it's in a state of civil war. Starmer can't just keep quiet on the issues that drive them apart, he needs to expel the ones who have beliefs that voters find unelectable otherwise the divisions will always destroy the party.

 

[Ban-jani]

Coincidentally enough I just read (in reference to the US election)... ‘voting isn’t a marriage, you’re not waiting for “the one”. It’s public transport and you take the bus that will get you closest to where you want to be’

Bang on.

The SDP are the party I would like to vote for but they don’t field a candidate in my constituency annoyingly so I can’t... but even taking them.. they’re leave supporters and I’m a remainer, however their domestic policies and general outlook are what the country needs in my opinion so I would overlook their Brexit stance.

You could argue they’ll never get in so I should go for the nearest out of the big parties, which is why I went Lib Dem.

 

[joe123]

Bang on.

The SDP are the party I would like to vote for but they don’t field a candidate in my constituency annoyingly so I can’t... but even taking them.. they’re leave supporters and I’m a remainer, however their domestic policies and general outlook are what the country needs in my opinion so I would overlook their Brexit stance.

You could argue they’ll never get in so I should go for the nearest out of the big parties, which is why I went Lib Dem.

It’s wishful thinking on my part but I’d love to see electoral pacts between Lab/Lib/Green/Other, the price of which being electoral reform which would give more appropriate weighting to smaller parties and make them worth voting for.

Anyway, back to reality...

 

[Ban-jani]

Remember a few years ago now people thought all the parties were the same, that's where we are heading now i think.

You can have a tory party or you can vote for a tory party.

The only reason the parties are similar is because the Tories have come left and are now operating as a New Labour government.

Starmer is somewhere in between Miliband and Corbyn, probably closer to Corbyn than Ed.

 

[Ban-jani]

It’s wishful thinking on my part but I’d love to see electoral pacts between Lab/Lib/Green/Other, the price of which being electoral reform which would give more appropriate weighting to smaller parties and make them worth voting for.

Anyway, back to reality...

Yeah never going to happen.

Labour are content being one of the big two it seems.

 

[Rascal]

That just about sums it up, but when I say Starmer has played a poor hand well, despite heading a party he doesn't much like, he has managed to position himself with Woking woman as a kind of 21st Century Ken Clarke, without the charm, and he looks quite statesman like opposite the incompetent, bumbling, populist.

To be fair Mr Bean would look more of a statesman than Johnson and he would probably have better policies.

Why would he want to lead a party he doesn't much like, that is what bewilders me about him. I would love to be proved very wrong about him and have to come on here and eat a massive portion of humble pie but i just dont see it with him. He may well do very well with Woking woman, but what about Wythenshawe woman, what good does a continuation of Tory lite do for them, he may well do very well with London metro liberals but what about Longsight working class.

Labour has been painted as the party of identity politics, which doesnt really mean much to a family on its arse in Ardwick, the term SJW is derided now and associated with being snowflakes and Labour the party that has always fought for social justice is now derided for fighting for it and I don't see Starmer doing much to alter that.

I held my nose and voted for Blair, despite him being to the right of me, but once bitten twice shy.