Keir Starmer

[urban genie]

"Neo liberal soft right" is that how you like to pigeon hole and label?
Voting green will have solved the lack of investment in the North. Voting for Bown to continue bankrupting the country wouldn't have helped either. You strike me as confused, contradictory and consumed by deep rooted hatred of others with opposing views.
I'll leave it there - no doubt to return to another of your diatribes.

Not in the slightest, I if anything have been the least insulting lefty on here, I do call tory MPs names, and cannot stand tom watson, but have never attacked or insulted posters or their stance even if I find it wrong.

I believe in the vote and so I would always vot ein an election, henc ethe green vote, I could easily have said I ain't voting, but I find that equaly a cop out from people.
Browns action are now recognised as being beneficial at the time on a global if not national level.
And yes I oppose the neo-liberal model which was never sustainable and led to both the crash and all that followed and I believe labour clinging to a reliance on the financial sector while letting the industrial base decline has helped erode trust, thinking returning to that model will save labour is too simplistoc

I am niether conflicted or confused, and you seem to need to label me as something rather tham me label you.

 

[Shaelumstash]

And the cities of newcastle, manchester, bristol, sheffield, leeds, sunderland, liverpool.

Labour dominates on the major cities, but has lost the faith of the other comunities, who let's be honest see less investment and improvement from both government and busuness.

I am supprised middlesborough stayed labour tbh as the place has been on decline for years.

Untill the country redistribute and re-invigerates former industrial heartlands decimated by a move to a financial services economic model they have no reason to stay loyal to a party built on the back of the industrial revolution

We have hardly any big manufacturing any more
We have no ship building
We have little in the shape steel industry
We have no coal iron, copper or tin mining industry even though we have large reserves.
We have no car building industry in any major form
We have no electrical manufactoring industry anymore.
We have lost many food production industries.


Other countries have a balance between financial and manufactoring and so communities haven't been left behind.

I don't blame people for rejecting labour because they feel brexit will somehow save their area and improve things or because they don't trust some olld fucker who is a london MP and seen as not relatable.
But if they believe what they have chosen is going to improve life for them, then they will be dissapointed.

I think you’ve completely misunderstood my post, mate. Maybe go back and read the rest of the conversation for context.

i’m a Labour supporter. I want them to win elections. But I know to do that, the party needs to be more moderate and move back to the left of centre where it won 3 elections in a row.

Rascal was arguing the party hasn’t gone far enough to the left and should go further! If the last 10 years has taught us anything, it’s that the country doesn’t want that.

Unfortunately, the very few people who do want to drag the party leftwards to Maxism are in control of the party. And their ideological vanity project over the last 10 years has led to 10 years of Tory rule and another landslide defeat this week.

You can’t help the most vulnerable in society with 200 seats. But unfortunately some ideologues would rather have zero seats and stick to their extreme left dogma. It’s an arrogant and conceited approach that has ended up making the poorest poorer.

 

[urban genie]

I think you’ve completely misunderstood my post, mate. Maybe go back and read the rest of the conversation for context.

i’m a Labour supporter. I want them to win elections. But I know to do that, the party needs to be more moderate and move back to the left of centre where it won 3 elections in a row.

Rascal was arguing the party hasn’t gone far enough to the left and should go further! If the last 10 years has taught us anything, it’s that the country doesn’t want that.

Unfortunately, the very few people who do want to drag the party leftwards to Maxism are in control of the party. And their ideological vanity project over the last 10 years has led to 10 years of Tory rule and another landslide defeat this week.

You can’t help the most vulnerable in society with 200 seats. But unfortunately some ideologues would rather have zero seats and stick to their extreme left dogma. It’s an arrogant and conceited approach that has ended up making the poorest poorer.

Ok but I was addressing you comment regardimg London and this myth that labour is just some london centric entity or entirely champaigne socialst is a nonsense.

Though this has been a line peddled for a while particulary by the Mail and corbyn has surrounded himself with london MPs and advisors which helped to cement the claim

Plenty of the working class in the major cities round the country backed them

Also I do think if they elect either starmer or thornbury the fact they are London based will be used against them in the north as them being not representative of them.


What direction the party goes in now is the next step, but it won't revert to new labour, bit also need to be more national

 

[Shaelumstash]

Ok but I was addressing you comment regardimg London and this myth that labour is just some london centric entity or entirely champaigne socialst is a nonsense.

Though this has been a line peddled for a while particulary by the Mail and corbyn has surrounded himself with london MPs and advisors which helped to cement the claim

Plenty of the working class in the major cities round the country backed them

Also I do think if they elect either starmer or thornbury the fact they are London based will be used against them in the north as them being not representative of them.


What direction the party goes in now is the next step, but it won't revert to new labour, bit also need to be more national

I never said Labour was a London centric entity. Read the context.

I said the wish to make the UK an isolationist Maxist state was a view shared by very few people.

Look at the numbers, mate. Even in safe Labour heartland seats, the vote collapsed by 10% across the board.

The canvassers on the ground are pretty unanimously saying the major issue was Corbyn and his lurch to the left. People don’t want it.

Labour can win its heartlands and win the country again with a moderate politics. But if the last 10 years has taught is anything, it’s that it can win fuck all with a far left ideology.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Not my original thought but that of an old friend, on Twitter, which basically said that the Corbynite wing of the Labour Party's attitude to people not liking its leader or message was to want to change the people.

 

[urban genie]

I never said Labour was a London centric entity. Read the context.

I said the wish to make the UK an isolationist Maxist state was a view shared by very few people.

Look at the numbers, mate. Even in safe Labour heartland seats, the vote collapsed by 10% across the board.

The canvassers on the ground are pretty unanimously saying the major issue was Corbyn and his lurch to the left. People don’t want it.

Labour can win its heartlands and win the country again with a moderate politics. But if the last 10 years has taught is anything, it’s that it can win fuck all with a far left ideology.

You specifically said coked up woke north london, and I pointd out all the major cities voted labour, that was all.

Your arguement about far left policy was with @Rascal not me, I was pointing out it is wrong to assume that this means laboour should swing back to policies that will not work now.

General polling on many labour policy was met favourably but the general public

The ability to prove that these policies wouldn't economically hurt people wasn't dispelled though also what wasn't met favourably was labours brexit stance, corbyns dealing with antisemetism, corbyns trustworthiness and ability to lead.

Those 4 thngs are why we lost labour it's heartlands in my opinon.

It is too easy to just slag off labour policy as alan johnson did (mommentum is different) and it would be foolish to knee jerkly say let's reject everything and go back to 97 thinking, what labour need to do now is liten to what is being said by those that abandonded them.

Get brexit done, one soundbite that resonated better than what labour said.

I still and will always believe in renatinalisation of water, rail and energy, public investment in housing, infrastructure and security, and I believe in helping the least fortunate, that is socialism, how exteme you see that as is up to the indivisual, I find that quite mild left policy personally

 

[Scoobz1]

I am anything but economically naïve, I have a degree in Economics and I can say with knowledge and conviction you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

And so do I plus 25 years in the FS industry operating at director level - feel free to pm and exchange CVs

Perhaps you didn't notice how the £ reacted - can you imagine what it would have done if Labour had of won - even that would of had a very significant inflationary impact !

As well as "knowing" more than the markets perhaps you have even more expertise than the IFS the https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/manifestos

 

[Shaelumstash]

You specifically said coked up woke north london, and I pointd out all the major cities voted labour, that was all.

Your arguement about far left policy was with @Rascal not me, I was pointing out it is wrong to assume that this means laboour should swing back to policies that will not work now.

General polling on many labour policy was met favourably but the general public

The ability to prove that these policies wouldn't economically hurt people wasn't dispelled though also what wasn't met favourably was labours brexit stance, corbyns dealing with antisemetism, corbyns trustworthiness and ability to lead.

Those 4 thngs are why we lost labour it's heartlands in my opinon.

It is too easy to just slag off labour policy as alan johnson did (mommentum is different) and it would be foolish to knee jerkly say let's reject everything and go back to 97 thinking, what labour need to do now is liten to what is being said by those that abandonded them.

Get brexit done, one soundbite that resonated better than what labour said.

I still and will always believe in renatinalisation of water, rail and energy, public investment in housing, infrastructure and security, and I believe in helping the least fortunate, that is socialism, how exteme you see that as is up to the indivisual, I find that quite mild left policy personally

Mate, I’ve said it three times now and you don’t appear to be listening to what I’m saying.

The North London comment was in reply to Rascal and was specifically in relation to the far left, Marxist, Momentum wing of the Labour party. Not the party as a whole.

You’re either deliberately trying to misrepresent my views or you’ve just not understood them.

 

[urban genie]

Mate, I’ve said it three times now and you don’t appear to be listening to what I’m saying.

The North London comment was in reply to Rascal and was specifically in relation to the far left, Marxist, Momentum wing of the Labour party. Not the party as a whole.

You’re either deliberately trying to misrepresent my views or you’ve just not understood them.

No I am not trying to misrepresent anything and understand what you were saying and I am making a different point on the same subject from another angle to your discussion with Rascal.

I am just saying I think to just equate it to north london MPs and momentum pushing this ideolgy is too simplistic.

I know only one member from people I know here in Manchester who wasn't happy with the move to the left wing.


Maybe I wrong, who knows I still believe the 4 points I made are why labour lost.

 

[mexico1970]

No I am not trying to misrepresent anything and understand what you were saying and I am making a different point on the same subject from another angle to your discussion with Rascal.

I am just saying I think to just equate it to north london MPs and momentum pushing this ideolgy is too simplistic.

I know only one member from people I know here in Manchester who wasn't happy with the move to the left wing.


Maybe I wrong, who knows I still believe the 4 points I made are why labour lost.

Labour lost some votes because of the anti-Semitism within their ranks and they lost some because of Corbyn and his cabinet but the main reason (This is only my opinion) is because of their non stance on Brexit.