Keir Starmer

[Rascal]

It certainly doesn’t, but Labour are starkly displayed on here, still calling voters thick and uneducated. Add in the types you describe, and Labour’s pandering to both,
and the upshot is what happened Thursday. Which begs the question, who exactly are the thick ones?

AC can you point to an instance on here where a leftie has actually called somebody thick?

 

[Rascal]

Turning ever more inwards instead of reaching out a descent into madness, I think. Replacing the inept and out of touch Dodds with an equally out of touch rightwinger Rachel Reeves. There will be no transformative agenda on the economy, public investment infrastructure and the environment only more of the same triangulation shite.

Sad really but I don't think we will see the change needed until baby boomers are in the ground. The death of the Labour party beckons. The soft left and radicals should peg themselves to the green party and let Keith sink what remains into irrelevance.

Promoting Reeves is just taking the piss.

The man is fucking useless.

 

[Petethemancinleeds]

Good shuffle, same pack, useless.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Promoting Reeves is just taking the piss.

The man is fucking useless.

Genuinely surprised how much discontent/descent Starmer has obviously had going on behind the scenes. I thought he'd already surrounded himself with sycophants, but apparently not enough.

 

[Len Rum]

Doesn’t take a genius to work it out does it???
Stubborn self serving middle class university educated debaters telling the working class what they have decided is best for them
Maybe it’s not worked so far for a reason.... no they will come round!

So how does that little rant translate into a new Labour vision.
Positive policy proposals welcome.

 

[Len Rum]

I agree with the first line.
Just a couple of questions though
What do you believe to be the concerns of the working class? And how do you/or why do other people think the Tories addressed and continue to address these concerns?
I begrudgingly admire the Tories, they've been able to con the working class into thinking that the Labour Party is for middle class, university educated left wingers, whilst at the same time convincing the middle class that the Labour Party is full of extreme socialists/communists wanting to turn the country into another Venezuela.
Agree with your last line too, Brexit is the turd that won't flush.

Like your third paragraph.
Don't think you'll get an answer @BlueAnorak

 

[Len Rum]

The idea that a country with its own currency cannot become bankrupt is demonstrable nonsense.
It has been pushed by the left for some years now and was a response, in this country at least, to heavy tory cuts.
You cannot print money (or sell assets) indefinitely as the currency becomes debauched and worthless. Markets will not accept it and you cannot then pay for imports. You are bankrupt.
Zimbabwe provides a modern example. The Zim dollar fell to one millionth of its launch value and was abandoned. Zim internal transactions had to be in scarce foreign currency such as the euro. The value of the Zim dollar was less than the cost of printing it and the piles of notes became useful only as doorstops.
Eventually Zimbabwe launched a new Zim dollar. How that has fared, I'm not sure.
UPDATE
The latest version of the Zim dollar was subject to an inflation rate of 350% p.a. as at Jan this year. The government holds auctions of foreign currency each week, so transactions are more stable.

You do realise that the Government is and has been printing money for a long time now.
I think about a quarter of the national debt is currently owed by the Government to itself ( the Bank of England).

 

[Len Rum]

Turning ever more inwards instead of reaching out a descent into madness, I think. Replacing the inept and out of touch Dodds with an equally out of touch rightwinger Rachel Reeves. There will be no transformative agenda on the economy, public investment infrastructure and the environment only more of the same triangulation shite.

Sad really but I don't think we will see the change needed until baby boomers are in the ground. The death of the Labour party beckons. The soft left and radicals should peg themselves to the green party and let Keith sink what remains into irrelevance.

What is the Tories' transformative agenda on the economy and public investment infrastructure?

 

[Tb1981]

So how does that little rant translate into a new Labour vision.
Positive policy proposals welcome.

Little steps would be a start
stop the infighting
1 stop telling us how shit our lives are and that it’s all Tory’s fault. Start telling us how you will improve things
2. Embrace brexit more and look to make it work. A lot of labour core support voted for this
3. Stop treat the working class as racist and thick. Every vote is equal
4. Get some mps that actually look and act like leaders- lammy, raynor, Abbott just want to oppose everything
5 listen to the voters. Stop preaching to them
6 propose a small but radical agenda for change - don’t promise the world to everyone Like corbyn as we know it’s bollocks.
Small steps get you there then when in power make big changes

can’t honestly say I think labour can do anything at the moment that will work
Just need to wait till Tory’s run out of steam and be in the right place to step in

 

[Len Rum]

Little steps would be a start
stop the infighting
1 stop telling us how shit our lives are and that it’s all Tory’s fault. Start telling us how you will improve things
2. Embrace brexit more and look to make it work. A lot of labour core support voted for this
3. Stop treat the working class as racist and thick. Every vote is equal
4. Get some mps that actually look and act like leaders- lammy, raynor, Abbott just want to oppose everything
5 listen to the voters. Stop preaching to them
6 propose a small but radical agenda for change - don’t promise the world to everyone Like corbyn as we know it’s bollocks.
Small steps get you there then when in power make big changes

can’t honestly say I think labour can do anything at the moment that will work
Just need to wait till Tory’s run out of steam and be in the right place to step in

Thanks for that.
Good summary.
Maybe it is the small steps that are more important than some mega transformative agenda.
Whether Labour can do that is another matter because it involves a change in mindset.
Not always easy for a political party.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What is the Tories' transformative agenda on the economy and public investment infrastructure?

There isn't one, it's just cranking up neo-liberal economics even further. Expect to see Freeports, more outsourcing in public and private sector and pork barrel patronage.

Which is why Labour had to be the party to offer the alternative and reshape the political economy. But they won't, they are too out of touch and bereft of talent. Currently led by an MP of 6 years experience with no political background before that.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

AC can you point to an instance on here where a leftie has actually called somebody thick?

If you like, try page 1221 on the Conservative thread.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

In other words, vote Green and elect yet more Tories.

No. Remove themselves from the party and take their place by alliance or merger with Greens . Either Labour pursues the progressive alliance as advocated by Clive Lewis or it will never govern again.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Owen Jones is a Liberal and Ash Sarkar is a Communist.

Socially liberal doesn't = Liberal

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

So Starmer has lost confidence in Rayner and wanted to move her to a much more junior role. However he has been unable to do that so even though he clearly doesn't rate her he has had to give her a much more senior role as a sop to the opposing factions in the party.

This shows that Starmer is already a dead man walking and it confirms to the voting public what a shambolic mess Labour is.

 

[Rascal]

Socially liberal doesn't = Liberal

I know i missed out Social from my post. I do that a lot when I am typing.

 

[Rascal]

If you like, try page 1221 on the Conservative thread.

I tried, , what post?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I know i missed out Social from my post. I do that a lot when I am typing.

Social liberalism isn't an accurate term either. He is "socially liberal" on social matters but his economic views are closer to social democracy and socialism.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well-spoken, likable moderate. Now, the problem is finding them!

i think Andy burnham would be good and popular with the electorate . Just need to become an mp again !!

 

[Vic]

No. Remove themselves from the party and take their place by alliance or merger with Greens . Either Labour pursues the progressive alliance as advocated by Clive Lewis or it will never govern again.

I can't speak for elsewhere, but round here the Greens have attracted some Corbyn fans from Labour, and it's benefitted no-one but the Tories. Labour lost seats to the Tories they'd have won without the Green vote.

It's a circular argument or it's a threat - Labour will never govern again because we challenge them under a system that means we split the left and get more Tories. Is that really really what you want? To help the green agenda by electing Tories?