Keir Starmer

The perfect fumble said:
As of June 2020 Japan's debt was around $12.2 trillion, around 240 percent of gross domestic product.

And it's been like this since the 1990s.

Debt is not the primary problem, the primary problem is whether you can service it.
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Almost all of Japan’s national debt is held internally. This makes a huge difference compared to countries that have a large proportion of their debt held by foreign banks / governments.

Japan has a different set of problems to most other countries. The general public saves (in government bonds) rather than spends so they have been in the grip of deflation for years. This is most definitely not a good thing economically.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Labour has a double whammy problem, you're right it has lost a connection with it socially conservative working class base, not just because it has nothing to say to them, but because it does not have the working class infrastructure to get its message across and around the right wing media.

Labour's ground game is shot to bits, membership is plummeting. Labour party central had to do a lot of the heavy lifting in Hartlepool because the local party would not pound the streets for Starmer and his handpicked clone, they think Starmer is a soft Tory and they're angry at his treatment of Corbyn.

It should not be underestimated how furious the young and the energetic are about Corbyn's continued exclusion. The media would have you believe Starmer's decline is all down to the Covid bounce, but the beginning of his dip in to irrelevance started the moment he pissed on Corbyn and by extension the left in the party and the wider left in the country. He picked a fight when none had to be fought to show that "Labour was under new management".

What a weak silly man, the left was already licking its wounds, that move was pure bile and bravado, straight out of the Mandelson playbook, let's show em who's in charge!

Starmer has reduced himself to nothing, the conversation now from both right and left is how long has he got and who's next?
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I think it's silly to say that Labour do not have the infrastructure to get the message across, this is again just making excuses and calling people stupid for reading the wrong messages. Virtually all of the gains Corbyn made were achieved on social media and they were massive gains. Go on social media in the 2019 election and you'd think Corbyn was going to walk in but it wasn't that the message was lost, it was that it wasn't enough.

The real thorn in Labour's side is it's own reputation for being the freedom fighter of the oppressed and poor rather than the whole country. This is perhaps what Starmer has tried to get away from as opposed to just replaying what has been tried and failed. Let's not forget that Starmer was in Corbyn's shadow cabinet ffs, he isn't a Tory, he just isn't Corbyn and that's what's going to destroy Labour internally.

The fact is though the floating voter now predominately votes Tory and that is what Labour needs to tackle and it just couldn't do that with Corbyn in charge. Regardless of the leader, choosing to continue identity and class obsessed politics whilst calling everyone else thick or reading the wrong type of media is not going to change things.

Labour needs to offer an alternative to the Tories and that means adopting sweeping popular policies that result in yes social improvements but also improvements that keep business strong. Without this balance then of course it's going to be easy to destroy Labour's credibility, it's been far too easy to do that on the same terms for over a decade now.
 
Rascal said:
Can you give me an instance of this actually happening.
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I read it on here everyday, apparently Labour never win elections because the working classes such as white van man Dave is too busy reading the wrong newspapers.

What's been missed though is will he vote Labour whilst Labour campaigners and even cabinet members are telling him how racist he is? Is he going to relate more to policy on the amount of women in boardrooms, the plight of Palestine or reparations for colonialism?

Labour was only recently arguing amongst itself over which definition of anti-semitism to use purely so that it could preserve attacking Israel. Meanwhile in real life I bet most people couldn't name Israel on a map.

Meanwhile, all the Tories are doing is saying those lot are lunatics. We will give you a referendum, we will give you a no deal Brexit and we will give you everything you want on the issues that are important to you. It's just too easy for them.

Who is he going to vote for?
 
We'll played Keith.

The news cycle is a toss up between your incompetence and the prime minister about to announce you can't have sex but you can play just the tip, unless they are a member of your family. (A vote winner in Batley)
 
whp.blue said:
Well I for one think he is an Egotistical cvnt.
He says what he thinks needs to be said when it needs saying.
He has one agenda and that is self promotion.
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I agree to an extent but so is boris.

he comes across as likeable and a man of the people. He got elected in Manchester by saying he would eradicate homelessness which is obviously nonsense.

as much as we might think charisma charm and saying the right things dont really matter it’s the substance that counts.

joe public think it’s a personality contest. They shouldn’t obviously but they do. If you want to get elected you have to play that game.

kier comes across a bit flat pack furtniture.
 
inbetween said:
I read it on here everyday, apparently Labour never win elections because the working classes such as white van man Dave is too busy reading the wrong newspapers.

What's been missed though is will he vote Labour whilst Labour campaigners and even cabinet members are telling him how racist he is? Is he going to relate more to policy on the amount of women in boardrooms, the plight of Palestine or reparations for colonialism?

Labour was only recently arguing amongst itself over which definition of anti-semitism to use purely so that it could preserve attacking Israel. Meanwhile in real life I bet most people couldn't name Israel on a map.

Meanwhile, all the Tories are doing is saying those lot are lunatics. We will give you a referendum, we will give you a no deal Brexit and we will give you everything you want on the issues that are important to you. It's just too easy for them.

Who is he going to vote for?
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Here's an idea.

Build affordable houses.
Increase wages of working people.
Improve healthcare.
Improve education.
Invest in entrepreneurship
Tax the rich and corporations abd state exactly what the money will be spent on
Invest in making communities look better and decent to live in.
Decriminalise drugs and use the money saved and raised in taxes to provide support for people who become addicts, including alcohol. Also itemize how the revenue will be used in local communities to improve them.
Bring public transport and all utilities I'm into public ownership and subsidise travel by more environmentally sustainable modes
Provide care for our old people that extends beyond a nice place to live
End child poverty
Stop wasting hundreds of billions in Trident. We have enough under NATO
Subsidise healthy food.
Create clubs and activities for all, especially the young.
Give all kids bikes and playing fields to get fit
Give people free prescriptions
Free higher education.
Stop getting involved in wars for profit or American imperialism.
Invest in local football clubs as a recognised hub of their community
Clean up and let flourish our beautiful natural environment
Develop well paid jobs developing sustainable energy.
Let no old person have to choose between eating and heating. Give them a club to go to, excursions,
Childcare to meet the needs of families.
End zero hour contracts
We fail to gather over £240b a year in taxes. Gather it and spend it all on the above.
 
Magicpole said:
Here's an idea.

Build affordable houses.
Increase wages of working people.
Improve healthcare.
Improve education.
Invest in entrepreneurship
Tax the rich and corporations abd state exactly what the money will be spent on
Invest in making communities look better and decent to live in.
Decriminalise drugs and use the money saved and raised in taxes to provide support for people who become addicts, including alcohol. Also itemize how the revenue will be used in local communities to improve them.
Bring public transport and all utilities I'm into public ownership and subsidise travel by more environmentally sustainable modes
Provide care for our old people that extends beyond a nice place to live
End child poverty
Stop wasting hundreds of billions in Trident. We have enough under NATO
Subsidise healthy food.
Create clubs and activities for all, especially the young.
Give all kids bikes and playing fields to get fit
Give people free prescriptions
Free higher education.
Stop getting involved in wars for profit or American imperialism.
Invest in local football clubs as a recognised hub of their community
Clean up and let flourish our beautiful natural environment
Develop well paid jobs developing sustainable energy.
Let no old person have to choose between eating and heating. Give them a club to go to, excursions,
Childcare to meet the needs of families.
End zero hour contracts
We fail to gather over £240b a year in taxes. Gather it and spend it all on the above.
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Some really good ideas in there mate.
Just a thought - leave out the bit about Trident and don't mention the wars --in themselves valid points but these would be vote losers with the English working class.
 
Len Rum said:
Some really good ideas in there mate.
Just a thought - leave out the bit about Trident and don't mention the wars --in themselves valid points but these would be vote losers with the English working class.
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I would start by pointing out an alliance we are part of has 25,000 already. I would tell them we will fight when it is necessary, but not to line the pockets of the war machine. I would remind them, that every person on the planet not residing in the six nuclear countries who don't have an independent nuclear arsenal sleep fine and so will we. Build up conventional forces, they love that.

On and divert the nuclear money to fighting real things that threaten us all every day. Pandemics. There are more coming that will actually do harm, rather than the fear generated at us to worry about Russia and China.
 
Magicpole said:
I would start by pointing out an alliance we are part of has 25,000 already. I would tell them we will fight when it is necessary, but not to line the pockets of the war machine. I would remind them, that every person on the planet not residing in the six nuclear countries who don't have an independent nuclear arsenal sleep fine and so will we. Build up conventional forces, they love that.

On and divert the nuclear money to fighting real things that threaten us all every day. Pandemics. There are more coming that will actually do harm, rather than the fear generated at us to worry about Russia and China.
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Personally don't disagree with your argument mate but IMO it would still be a massive vote loser and could prevent you getting into power and doing all the other things you mentioned.
 
Magicpole said:
I would start by pointing out an alliance we are part of has 25,000 already. I would tell them we will fight when it is necessary, but not to line the pockets of the war machine. I would remind them, that every person on the planet not residing in the six nuclear countries who don't have an independent nuclear arsenal sleep fine and so will we. Build up conventional forces, they love that.

On and divert the nuclear money to fighting real things that threaten us all every day. Pandemics. There are more coming that will actually do harm, rather than the fear generated at us to worry about Russia and China.
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You have thousands directly employed in the manufacture and supply of the submarines and weapons involved with Trident. Places like Barrow would become ghost towns. One to note, Barrow went Tory in 2019 for the first time in 30 years, I wonder why?

Just to add, Trident will cost something like £100bn or £3bn per year over the project life of 30+ years. Public sector spending stood at £840bn last year and £220bn of that was borrowed. So £3bn doesn't even scratch the surface, the full £100bn doesn't even scratch the surface. It barely even covers the post-pandemic furlough bill.
 
inbetween said:
I think it's silly to say that Labour do not have the infrastructure to get the message across, this is again just making excuses and calling people stupid for reading the wrong messages. Virtually all of the gains Corbyn made were achieved on social media and they were massive gains. Go on social media in the 2019 election and you'd think Corbyn was going to walk in but it wasn't that the message was lost, it was that it wasn't enough.

The real thorn in Labour's side is it's own reputation for being the freedom fighter of the oppressed and poor rather than the whole country. This is perhaps what Starmer has tried to get away from as opposed to just replaying what has been tried and failed. Let's not forget that Starmer was in Corbyn's shadow cabinet ffs, he isn't a Tory, he just isn't Corbyn and that's what's going to destroy Labour internally.

The fact is though the floating voter now predominately votes Tory and that is what Labour needs to tackle and it just couldn't do that with Corbyn in charge. Regardless of the leader, choosing to continue identity and class obsessed politics whilst calling everyone else thick or reading the wrong type of media is not going to change things.

Labour needs to offer an alternative to the Tories and that means adopting sweeping popular policies that result in yes social improvements but also improvements that keep business strong. Without this balance then of course it's going to be easy to destroy Labour's credibility, it's been far too easy to do that on the same terms for over a decade now.
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This isn't a video game where you get to construct your own perfect political party, that's not how it works.

The UK has been running a zero-sum game for the advantage of the rich for 40 years, the middle class is squeezed and the poor get fucked, this reality needs to be addressed if we want a more prosperous and harmonious society.

If you just want to win elections then lie and lie some more until you're eventually found out, you'd probably get re-elected anyways if you're a Tory.
 
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inbetween said:
You have thousands directly employed in the manufacture and supply of the submarines and weapons involved with Trident. Places like Barrow would become ghost towns. One to note, Barrow went Tory in 2019 for the first time in 30 years, I wonder why?

Just to add, Trident will cost something like £100bn or £3bn per year over the project life of 30+ years. Public sector spending stood at £840bn last year and £220bn of that was borrowed. So £3bn doesn't even scratch the surface, the full £100bn doesn't even scratch the surface. It barely even covers the post-pandemic furlough bill.
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We used to employ thousands in digging coal, weaving, mill workers, slavery, and so on. The world changes. Redeploy these people into building wind and water turbines, capturing the sun's energy. If we used your argument, we would still be pulling carts with horses. The bottom line in an economic sense is if we don't get in and start developing new technologies, someone else will. There will obviously be a transitional period, but that can be accommodated if we invest in that transition. It's also funny that Tories didnt give a fuck about our Coal, Steel, Ship Building, Car Production, in fact our whole manufacturing base. They let them die without so much as a single fuck being given. However, make it about WMD production and all changes as they seem hellbent on having a cock waving independent arsenal. We don't need them. What we do need is a future and that future will be easier achieved in a better way if we use it's resources to build our country, rather than destroying someone else's.
 
What a waste of fucking time Starmer is. Zero personality and zero policies that i know of.
Admittedly, I rarely go deep into politics these days so i may have missed something.
If Labour are going to break the stranglehold the tories have then Starmer needs to stop being 'average' and start ruffling feathers. Give us some radical ideas or even just ideas that will make Joe public sit up and take notice.
Personally i'd fuck him off and get a younger, sharper, preferably female leader with the balls and brains to take the press, and by association the tories, on
 
Magicpole said:
We used to employ thousands in digging coal, weaving, mill workers, slavery, and so on. The world changes. Redeploy these people into building wind and water turbines, capturing the sun's energy. If we used your argument, we would still be pulling carts with horses. The bottom line in an economic sense is if we don't get in and start developing new technologies, someone else will. There will obviously be a transitional period, but that can be accommodated if we invest in that transition. It's also funny that Tories didnt give a fuck about our Coal, Steel, Ship Building, Car Production, in fact our whole manufacturing base. They let them die without so much as a single fuck being given. However, make it about WMD production and all changes as they seem hellbent on having a cock waving independent arsenal. We don't need them. What we do need is a future and that future will be easier achieved in a better way if we use it's resources to build our country, rather than destroying someone else's.
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Afuckingmen to that brother
 
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