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blueinsa
Guest
Politics for a long time has been about which pack of lies you fancy dining out on.
Fag paper between the majority of them when it comes to being economical with the truth.
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Keir Starmer
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
Politics for a long time has been about which pack of lies you fancy dining out on.
Fag paper between the majority of them when it comes to being economical with the truth.
Do we have to list every lie Johnson has told at PMQ in the last few weeks? The Tories have been lying on an industrial scale (including the nonsense about care homes that "no one knew about community transmission")Politics for a long time has been about which pack of lies you fancy dining out on.
Fag paper between the majority of them when it comes to being economical with the truth.
Silva_Spell
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 4 Oct 2014
- Messages
- 5,287
Starmer undoing his previous decent work by pandering to the neo-marxist/maoist identitarian cult with all this anti-scientific 'implicit bias' guff. The cringe kneeling was pretty bad but I guess he didn't like the nonsense criticism he got for his perfectly normal answer to questions about defunding/getting rid of the police. Pity.
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blueinsa
Guest
Starmer undoing his previous decent work by pandering to the neo-marxist/maoist identitarian cult with all this anti-scientific 'implicit bias' guff. The cringe kneeling was pretty bad but I guess he didn't like the nonsense criticism he got for his perfectly normal answer to questions about defunding/getting rid of the police. Pity.
Rule number 1.....don't upset social media.
Southbanken
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2012
- Messages
- 450
Not for two well read, highly intelligent young gadabouts like me and you fella, but seemingly for some it IS.
That was my point, so thank you for reinforcing it so eloquently. The issue of leave v remain has NEVER been a simple left v right issue and likely never will be however much middle class remainers try to make it so.
The leave vote is a broad spectrum, encompassing wildly different political viewpoints, it's what makes it so appealing to so many millions of people. What other issue can Unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Tony Benn?
I believe I was replying to a poster who seemed to think that everyone who voted labour at the GE would have dutifully done as they were told by their middle class masters and voted remain in a 2nd ref.
I was simply pointing out that wasn't the case. The working class has leave and remain voters amongst it's number. It is the most diverse of all the classes on this issue - you won't find many leave voters in a leafy suburb but you will still find many in a depressed housing estate.
It just happens that the working class has millions more leave supporters that the almost exclusively remain middle classes.
It's why leave smashed it in the referendum.
I know that's hard to take for some people but, you know, democracy me old chum.
You are correct, the leave vote is a hugely broad spectrum and this is exactly what makes it appealing to so many. Despite this unholy coalition of Rees-Mogg and his free market zealots, Labour Party Bennites, innocents who believe what they read on busses, daily mail reading Doris from the shires, rabid EDL racists and UKIPs swivel eyed loons, leave did not "smash it" in the referendum, it won by a fag paper.
It is this same unlikely union of leavers that makes Brexit entirely un-deliverable - "leaving" means different things to all the various different leave groups. So much so that they cannot create a deal that they all agree on. As a result we are going to end up with "no deal" which has zero mandate as it was not what leave campaigned for - in fact we were explicitly told on numerous occasions in the referendum campaign that we would get a "great deal", "easiest deal in history", "we hold all the cards", "German car manufacturers need us" etc etc. That, old chum, is not democracy, or at least it is not democracy functioning as it should.
However i digress, as correct as you are to highlight that this is not a left / right issue, you are just as incorrect with your desire to turn this into an entirely class led issue. The "exclusively remain middle classes" is an utter fallacy - 43% of the middle and upper middle classes voted to leave. More than 4 in 10 of voters in those leafy suburbs you describe voted to leave. It is no less diverse than the working class communities where 36% voted to remain. These are the facts of the situation, it is no more a class issue than it is a party issue.
Kazzydeyna
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 5 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 3,010
Not today mate. We've just won at CAS.You are correct, the leave vote is a hugely broad spectrum and this is exactly what makes it appealing to so many. Despite this unholy coalition of Rees-Mogg and his free market zealots, Labour Party Bennites, innocents who believe what they read on busses, daily mail reading Doris from the shires, rabid EDL racists and UKIPs swivel eyed loons, leave did not "smash it" in the referendum, it won by a fag paper.
It is this same unlikely union of leavers that makes Brexit entirely un-deliverable - "leaving" means different things to all the various different leave groups. So much so that they cannot create a deal that they all agree on. As a result we are going to end up with "no deal" which has zero mandate as it was not what leave campaigned for - in fact we were explicitly told on numerous occasions in the referendum campaign that we would get a "great deal", "easiest deal in history", "we hold all the cards", "German car manufacturers need us" etc etc. That, old chum, is not democracy, or at least it is not democracy functioning as it should.
However i digress, as correct as you are to highlight that this is not a left / right issue, you are just as incorrect with your desire to turn this into an entirely class led issue. The "exclusively remain middle classes" is an utter fallacy - 43% of the middle and upper middle classes voted to leave. More than 4 in 10 of voters in those leafy suburbs you describe voted to leave. It is no less diverse than the working class communities where 36% voted to remain. These are the facts of the situation, it is no more a class issue than it is a party issue.
Nothing else matters today
Northernstorirs
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 1,216
If Labour want to win back voters then they need to strongly distance themselves from that twat Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar.
A Labour govt would be more concerned with mis-use of pronouns and pulling down statues than resolving the economy.
A Labour govt would be more concerned with mis-use of pronouns and pulling down statues than resolving the economy.
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blueinsa
Guest
Despite this unholy coalition of Rees-Mogg and his free market zealots, Labour Party Bennites, innocents who believe what they read on busses, daily mail reading Doris from the shires, rabid EDL racists and UKIPs swivel eyed loons
Bitter remainer.
leave did not "smash it" in the referendum, it won by a fag paper
Thats some fucking rizla, 1,269,501 of them!
Smashed!
Rascal
El Presidente
Starmer undoing his previous decent work by pandering to the neo-marxist/maoist identitarian cult.
Who are they?
Marx would have been solidly against identity politics as I am certain he would have seen it as a tool used for Bourgeoisie oppresion. I dont know about Mao as i have never read any of his works. Apparently the great Joe Corrigon was a big fan of Chairman Mao.
Rascal
El Presidente
If Labour want to win back voters then they need to strongly distance themselves from that twat Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar.
A Labour govt would be more concerned with mis-use of pronouns and pulling down statues than resolving the economy.
What has Jones and Sarkar got to do with the Labour party? Jones writes for the metro liberal Guardian, a Labour hating newspaper and Sarker is an avowed Communist. They have as much to do with the Labour party as Toby "eugencist" Young has with the Tories. Do you think Johnson should distance himself from Young, the Mail, the Taxpayers Alliance, the IEA and the numerous right wing fruitcakes we get on the TV.
If you knew anything about economics you might realise that Sunak has recently enacted possibly the most left wing economic plans since Atlee, they were firmly Keynesian rather than the Tory norm of Hayekian free market stupidity.