Keir Starmer

[jamesbond007]

You have perfectly described the whole point of the RW led culture wars.

The problem the left has is finding an answer to these accusations.

Personal pronouns, its not a Socialist issue, it is a liberal issue, an issue that the RW of the Labour party with their metro sensibilities think is liberating, to the working class base it doesn't fucking matter, me personally I couldnt care less about it, i am more interested in whether the pronouns are being fed, have homes, have access to good education etc than if they are Mr, Mrs , Ms or whatever else they want to be.

Is anyone really concerned about our colonial past, if the people behind the culture wars were concerned then why is it not taught properly, warts and all. By all means teach the good bits, but teach the bad bits too. You do not learn about Fascism by saying they built great Autobahns, you learn by what bad stuff they did as well. So teach that the Empire was built on the backs of colonialism, learn how the subcontinent was exploited, its industry closed down so Manchester could produce textiles to sell back to the subcontinent, learn the reasons why it happened, do not ignore it, it happened. It doesn't make the UK any less of a country, it makes us a more honest open country willing to accept we made mistakes as well as doing a lot of good. Learn that we used slavery to populate cotton fields to pick cotton, to send to Manchester to make textiles to sell to India and use the profit to buy opium to sell, learn we were basically drug dealers. We don't have to apologise for it, it is nobody who is alive who is at fault our ancestors were cunts. Ignoring history though is wrong, rewriting history is wrong. It is a fact that Great Britain became the biggest colonialists of all and they did so because we had an abundance of Oak trees, that we used to build the worlds greatest navy. Teach it all, warts and all.

I steer clear of the Palestine issue, but there are people who see it as a re-enactment of the aparthied struggles in South Africa. They may have a point, it is a fringe thing though and not really as widespread as is made out. It has been used though to paint the left as antisemitic. There may be some antisemitic stuff thrown around, I dont do it and nobody I know does it.

As for Patriotism, it was always the left that was Patriotic, it was always and will always be the working class that do the majority of the dying in the name of Queen of country. Personally though I get sick of having flags rammed down my throat as waving a flag does not make you a patriot, caring about your community, caring about your fellow man and caring about countries good name makes you a patriot. The cunts waving flags and ramming Englishness down peoples throats are not Patriots they are Nationalists, and as Orwell says Patriotism is defensive it is a love of your country Nationalism desires power and seeks prestige. it is not love it is driven by avarice and it is offensive.

The Labour party was formed as a party for Workers, it was aspirational for workers who had long been downtrodden and unrepresented in the corridors of power, it wanted power for the working class, it wanted the working class to be better and be given life chances like those of everyone else. That is aspiration not the corrupted Tory version of aspiration where what you own is more important than what you are. In Socialism there is no room for idleness, everyone works, the goal is always full employment, it is the capitalist class that do not like full employment because full employment puts power in the hands of the workers and they can demand a bigger slice of the pie.

Of course Labour should stand up for minorities, but Labour should also stand up for majorities too, because Labour should stand up for everyone. We already have a party in government that governs for a minority, although the capitalist class are never portrayed as a minority, but they are and they are the ones who hold power and treat us to these ridiculous culture wars so they can stay in power. They want what is there's and what is yours, that drives inequality and the thick fuckers do not see that by pursuing this narrow minded agenda they create inequalities amongst themselves.

As long as people fall for these culture wars though Labour has no chance of power, when flag waving is more important than feeding kids, singing the national anthem is more important than building decent homes and salivating over statues of long dead anti-heros is more important than building houses then this government and its cronies can carry on with their systematic rape and pillaging of the nations treasure,

This is great (deserves more than a 'like') you should write a book.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

This is great (deserves more than a 'like') you should write a book.

It’d be amazing if he wrote something to do with the last decade in politics…

 

[jamesbond007]

Until the left realises that the people it’s supposed to represent don’t give a monkeys about personal pronouns, doesn’t wake up every morning worried about a colonial past it can’t change, doesn‘t discuss the Palestinians first thing every morning but does think of itself as patriotic, hard working, if given the chance, and also aspirational, the left is done for in this country.
The sad thing is it knows what a lot of the policies needed are and they’re often in the manifesto, but it gets itself lost in minority politics. I’m not saying we shouldn’t stand up for minorities but they should also be standing up for everyone else they’re supposed to represent and, in that, they have failed, they and continue to fail dismally, I’m afraid.

‘Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray
South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio
Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, television
North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe

Trans rights, Palestine, lock-downs, take the knee,
Barnard Castle, ‘free-speech’, Batley, Islamophobia
Border force, migrants, Meghan Markle, BLM
Pimlico, Harry Kane, statues & the vaccine

Rosenbergs, H-bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, "The King and I", and "The Catcher in the Rye"
Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen
Marciano, Liberace, Santayana, goodbye’

We didn’t start the fire etc. etc.

(With thanks to Billy Joel)

 

[Quad]

Until the left realises that the people it’s supposed to represent don’t give a monkeys about personal pronouns, doesn’t wake up every morning worried about a colonial past it can’t change, doesn‘t discuss the Palestinians first thing every morning but does think of itself as patriotic, hard working, if given the chance, and also aspirational, the left is done for in this country.
The sad thing is it knows what a lot of the policies needed are and they’re often in the manifesto, but it gets itself lost in minority politics. I’m not saying we shouldn’t stand up for minorities but they should also be standing up for everyone else they’re supposed to represent and, in that, they have failed, they and continue to fail dismally, I’m afraid.

Most people I know are working class and just want a job , work hard , have family time

but don’t want to be preached at

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

You have perfectly described the whole point of the RW led culture wars.

The problem the left has is finding an answer to these accusations.

Personal pronouns, its not a Socialist issue, it is a liberal issue, an issue that the RW of the Labour party with their metro sensibilities think is liberating, to the working class base it doesn't fucking matter, me personally I couldnt care less about it, i am more interested in whether the pronouns are being fed, have homes, have access to good education etc than if they are Mr, Mrs , Ms or whatever else they want to be.

Is anyone really concerned about our colonial past, if the people behind the culture wars were concerned then why is it not taught properly, warts and all. By all means teach the good bits, but teach the bad bits too. You do not learn about Fascism by saying they built great Autobahns, you learn by what bad stuff they did as well. So teach that the Empire was built on the backs of colonialism, learn how the subcontinent was exploited, its industry closed down so Manchester could produce textiles to sell back to the subcontinent, learn the reasons why it happened, do not ignore it, it happened. It doesn't make the UK any less of a country, it makes us a more honest open country willing to accept we made mistakes as well as doing a lot of good. Learn that we used slavery to populate cotton fields to pick cotton, to send to Manchester to make textiles to sell to India and use the profit to buy opium to sell, learn we were basically drug dealers. We don't have to apologise for it, it is nobody who is alive who is at fault our ancestors were cunts. Ignoring history though is wrong, rewriting history is wrong. It is a fact that Great Britain became the biggest colonialists of all and they did so because we had an abundance of Oak trees, that we used to build the worlds greatest navy. Teach it all, warts and all.

I steer clear of the Palestine issue, but there are people who see it as a re-enactment of the aparthied struggles in South Africa. They may have a point, it is a fringe thing though and not really as widespread as is made out. It has been used though to paint the left as antisemitic. There may be some antisemitic stuff thrown around, I dont do it and nobody I know does it.

As for Patriotism, it was always the left that was Patriotic, it was always and will always be the working class that do the majority of the dying in the name of Queen of country. Personally though I get sick of having flags rammed down my throat as waving a flag does not make you a patriot, caring about your community, caring about your fellow man and caring about countries good name makes you a patriot. The cunts waving flags and ramming Englishness down peoples throats are not Patriots they are Nationalists, and as Orwell says Patriotism is defensive it is a love of your country Nationalism desires power and seeks prestige. it is not love it is driven by avarice and it is offensive.

The Labour party was formed as a party for Workers, it was aspirational for workers who had long been downtrodden and unrepresented in the corridors of power, it wanted power for the working class, it wanted the working class to be better and be given life chances like those of everyone else. That is aspiration not the corrupted Tory version of aspiration where what you own is more important than what you are. In Socialism there is no room for idleness, everyone works, the goal is always full employment, it is the capitalist class that do not like full employment because full employment puts power in the hands of the workers and they can demand a bigger slice of the pie.

Of course Labour should stand up for minorities, but Labour should also stand up for majorities too, because Labour should stand up for everyone. We already have a party in government that governs for a minority, although the capitalist class are never portrayed as a minority, but they are and they are the ones who hold power and treat us to these ridiculous culture wars so they can stay in power. They want what is there's and what is yours, that drives inequality and the thick fuckers do not see that by pursuing this narrow minded agenda they create inequalities amongst themselves.

As long as people fall for these culture wars though Labour has no chance of power, when flag waving is more important than feeding kids, singing the national anthem is more important than building decent homes and salivating over statues of long dead anti-heros is more important than building houses then this government and its cronies can carry on with their systematic rape and pillaging of the nations treasure,

I agree with all that and they should be focussing on the issues that matter to people, whilst supporting minorities in a practical way. What I’ve never understood why the one lesson they‘ve never learnt from the Tories is to say what you need to get elected then do whatever you want once you’re in power.….
They need to understand that ‘infiltrating’ the metropolis, parts of the media and the university sectors (both staff and students) doesn’t mean that people who traditionally look to the Labour Party are like them and I rather think the presumption is that they are. I am afraid the cultural left who’ve invaded the Labour Party have left us with a hard Brexit and at least 5 years of Johnson following almost 10 years of austerity and it’s bloody unforgivable.

The focus should be on what unites not what divides and not allowing the right to easily seize upon the middle class, London centric insistence upon all things ‘woke‘ to then parody the whole Labour movement.
While advocates of identity politics have unarguably good intentions, the delivery of the message has been lost. Laughably, the idea that capitalism can be made OK if we only make the 10 people sitting around the boardroom table, female, BAME, or LGBTQ+ is a false one.
By focusing on the solid socialist economics that will improve the lives of many, junking divisive identity politics and finally respecting the result of the referendum, Labour can win the war being waged on the working class and unite people of ALL races and identities and win traditional working-class Labour voters back. Sadly, I feel it’s a message that won’t be heard:
Finally, I know the culture wars are a very easy vehicle for the right wing Labour don’t half make it easy for them (and this would have been Corbin had he still been leader).

 

[jamesbond007]

Finally, I know the culture wars are a very easy vehicle for the right wing Labour don’t half make it easy for them (and this would have been Corbin had he still been leader).

View attachment 19684

Keir and Labour have employed a new team of advisors to help with how he and the party projects a certain 'image' to the public, since this picture was taken (June last year). More Union Jack flags and that sort of thing & they probably would have advised against that photo-op at the time, although it was right at the pinnacle of the George Floyd inspired #BLM movement, so he might of overruled them on principle, anyway. We will never know.

 

[Rascal]

It’d be amazing if he wrote something to do with the last decade in politics…

Really.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Really.

Thought you were doing?

 

[Rascal]

I am afraid the cultural left who’ve invaded the Labour Party have left us with a hard Brexit and at least 5 years of Johnson following almost 10 years of austerity and it’s bloody unforgivable.

I do not understand what you mean by this cultural left?

Marx's argument was that culture was used to preserve inequality (he got that right) , it is counter intuitive to think the left would want to preserve these inequalities that arise through Capitalism, because only by countering Capitalism with Socialist policies can inequalities be addressed. I would argue that the Blairite acceptance of neo-liberal economics drove Brexit far more than the left, because Labour at that time accepted Capitalism and refuted Socialism.

 

[Rascal]

Thought you were doing?

I would love too, I would concentrate on Communitarianism. We need to place emphasis on place and community, give more power to local people, enhance democratic decision making, in effect go back before we go forward. By that I mean our roots are in family, extended families, then tribes, collectives. Everybody works for the common good, not the individual desire. I do believe Humans were Socialist before they were capitalist, although they did trade, they didn't trade for individual greed, but for collective needs. An example is if the man who invented the wheel had not met the man who invented the cart and then both of them met the man who tamed a horse, then we would still be walking everywhere.