Keir Starmer

[BobKowalski]

Ah the momentum of 2017 when the Labour right and the liberal press collectively shit their pants because he came too close for comfort.


Yet you suggest he failed to build on 2017 and 'allowed the party to be painted as anti-semitic ' but dismiss any notion that it had anything to do with media/vested interests? I mean where did this shit come from?

It stems from the fact you attribute no blame to Corbyn for his political demise. Corbyn allowed the anti-semitism to fester and allowed the media to make an issue of it because it was an issue. Same with the response to the Salisbury attack. The manifesto was stuffed full of goodies, but lacked focus. Ultimately, Corbyn was a poor leader and that is what apologists refuse to acknowledge or accept.

The same is true of Johnson. Neither man accepts responsibility. We are getting exactly the same excuses from Johnson and his followers. ‘It was the media obsession with ‘parties’ that did for the PM’ - yeah, you had the fucking parties, mate. Or it was ‘remainders egged on by the EU’, or whatever.

Johnson will encourage a betrayal myth. You subscribe to Corbyn’s betrayal myth. Both see themselves as good men wronged. Reality is, both were shit at the job they were elected to do.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It stems from the fact you attribute no blame to Corbyn for his political demise. Corbyn allowed the anti-semitism to fester and allowed the media to make an issue of it because it was an issue. Same with the response to the Salisbury attack. The manifesto was stuffed full of goodies, but lacked focus. Ultimately, Corbyn was a poor leader and that is what apologists refuse to acknowledge or accept.

The same is true of Johnson. Neither man accepts responsibility. We are getting exactly the same excuses from Johnson and his followers. ‘It was the media obsession with ‘parties’ that did for the PM’ - yeah, you had the fucking parties, mate. Or it was ‘remainders egged on by the EU’, or whatever.

Johnson will encourage a betrayal myth. You subscribe to Corbyn’s betrayal myth. Both see themselves as good men wronged. Reality is, both were shit at the job they were elected to do.

The problem with referring to betrayal as a myth is that there were a number of officials within the party actively hoping and working to get the party to lose an election.

Corbyn was speaking the truth when he said that antisemitism was largely exaggerated for political purposes. It was all a trick by the Zionist lobby and right wing Labour MPs.

He undoubtedly made mistakes in how he dealt with it. Nor was he ever a great leader or campaigner.

But If you believe that he could have actually kept a lid on this issue and solved it, then you haven't been paying attention properly.

Why on earth should it be acceptable for the Israel and their sycophants to interfere in domestic politics of another sovereign country?

 

[BobKowalski]

The problem with referring to betrayal as a myth is that there were a number of officials within the party actively hoping and working to get the party to lose an election.

Corbyn was speaking the truth when he said that antisemitism was largely exaggerated for political purposes. It was all a trick by the Zionist lobby and right wing Labour MPs.

He undoubtedly made mistakes in how he dealt with it. Nor was he ever a great leader or campaigner.

But If you believe that he could have actually kept a lid on this issue and solved it, then you haven't been paying attention properly.

Why on earth should it be acceptable for the Israel and their sycophants to interfere in domestic politics of another sovereign country?

I would point to the Tory Party which is currently performing regicide, will undergo a sustained period of vicious infighting and end up with Johnson and his followers actively wishing electoral defeat on his successor. What Corbyn faced is nothing new. Starmer also lacks the support of some MP’s and in the Labour membership and they will no doubt cause him problems. But it is Starmer’s job to manage that and if he can’t then he will be found wanting in the job as well.

Corbyn’s tone and reaction to the anti-semitism was an issue. Corbyn was a captive of his past and failed to move beyond where his natural sympathies lay. For a backbench MP that is not a problem. For the leader of a party, you need to see beyond that, see the ramifications of letting the issue drift. Corbyn never understood that.

No one mentioned Israel. People can be critical of Israel and its actions as much as they like and in many instances, rightly so. But some people don’t stop there and that is an issue.

When people invest in a politician or political movement there is a desire to blame outside forces or internal enemies whilst absolving the politician of any responsibility, as if they were hapless to do anything. You see this with Corbyn, we are seeing it with Johnson - you can see it with Brexit which is never wrong, indeed can never be wrong - and that for me is not healthy. My initial point was that Corbyn, like Johnson, was the principal architect of their demise and to avoid picking leaders with similar flaws it would be wise to acknowledge that.

 

[Saddleworth2]

The problem with referring to betrayal as a myth is that there were a number of officials within the party actively hoping and working to get the party to lose an election.

Corbyn was speaking the truth when he said that antisemitism was largely exaggerated for political purposes. It was all a trick by the Zionist lobby and right wing Labour MPs.

He undoubtedly made mistakes in how he dealt with it. Nor was he ever a great leader or campaigner.

But If you believe that he could have actually kept a lid on this issue and solved it, then you haven't been paying attention properly.

Why on earth should it be acceptable for the Israel and their sycophants to interfere in domestic politics of another sovereign country?

Makes a change from Russia?

 

[bluethrunthru]

How odd - the Daily Heil front page was often all over the Starmer "Beergate" investigation yet they couldn't find any space there today now they have the verdict. Some sub-editor will be getting his arse kicked for such a blatant omission

Daily Mail Front Page 9th of July 2022 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

 

[mat]

Makes a change from Russia?

I suspect The Dalek works for Israel. The evidence in fact is Overwhelming.

 

[Postman Pep]

It stems from the fact you attribute no blame to Corbyn for his political demise.

Not really. He was the leader of a party that conceded an eighty seat majority and a diamond hard brexit so of course he takes some of the blame, that goes without saying .... which is why I never said it.

The issue is your refusal to acknowledge that factional shithousery within the party and hysterical Guardian columnists played any part in his demise, suggesting it was all down to him and his character flaws.

Corbyn allowed the anti-semitism to fester and allowed the media to make an issue of it because it was an issue.

It *was* an issue? Pretty remarkable how an organisation can go from being institutionally racist to getting a clean bill of health just by changing the leader. Maybe Keith is the man to sort out the Met?

Or maybe the 'issue' really was exaggerated for political purposes?

Same with the response to the Salisbury attack.

The manifesto was stuffed full of goodies, but lacked focus.

Agree there was just too much stuff. But how much of that was a desperate pitch to minimise the amount of votes they would inevitability torch by going 2nd referendum?

Ultimately, Corbyn was a poor leader and that is what apologists refuse to acknowledge or accept.

To repeat I've never claimed otherwise.

The same is true of Johnson. Neither man accepts responsibility. We are getting exactly the same excuses from Johnson and his followers. ‘It was the media obsession with ‘parties’ that did for the PM’ - yeah, you had the fucking parties, mate. Or it was ‘remainders egged on by the EU’, or whatever.

That is one desperate 'they are all the same' argument right there.

Johnson will encourage a betrayal myth. You subscribe to Corbyn’s betrayal myth. Both see themselves as good men wronged. Reality is, both were shit at the job they were elected to do.

I suppose I must have imagined Margaret Hodge comparing the Labour party to Nazi Germany live on Sky News ... or at least not understood that it was all reasonable behavior that was down to one man being shit at his job.

 

[mat]

Starmer doing another "What we're gonna do in power" speech without talking about his policies.

BBC Journalist asked him where are they. The Sky Journalists just asked if if he's too boring to win an election.

I would like them to ask the Tory party leader candidates the same questions.

 

[mat]

Sky still pushing he's boring line.

I wonder if this is the new Tory directed attack on him?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Starmer doing another "What we're gonna do in power" speech without talking about his policies.

BBC Journalist asked him where are they. The Sky Journalists just asked if if he's too boring to win an election.

I would like them to ask the Tory party leader candidates the same questions.

You’ll be waiting a long time. There’s a reason we’ve had a Tory government for 30 years out of the last 43 and it’s not because they’re any good!!