Keir Starmer

[Rascal]

Agreed Momentum were not the hard left. Idealistic but idealogues like the militant tendency.

I was thinking more of the boring orthodox left than the radicals. Radicals come up with ideas, the orthodox left just rehash Marxist-Leninist crap.

The shite aimed at momentum was disgusting, they were a grass roots campainging organisation that supported Corbyn, it was not full of Marxists that is just fucking nonsense created by the likes of the Mail. Momentum tried to rally support to stop that obnoxious Blairite LFI **** Luke Akehurst getting on the NEC. Thats that they did.

All this kow-towing to the RW media pisses me right off. As for the orthodox left rehashing Marxist Leninist crap, what do you mean by orthodox and what crap do they rehash?

Was the last Labour manifesto boring or did it come up with the idea of the radical new green deal?

I know for fucking sure Starmer and his band of nobodies has not got a radical idea between them, they are trying to move Labour away from its Democratic Socialist roots to be a party like the American democrats,

 

[bluethrunthru]

The shite aimed at momentum was disgusting, they were a grass roots campainging organisation that supported Corbyn, it was not full of Marxists that is just fucking nonsense created by the likes of the Mail. Momentum tried to rally support to stop that obnoxious Blairite LFI **** Luke Akehurst getting on the NEC. Thats that they did.

All this kow-towing to the RW media pisses me right off. As for the orthodox left rehashing Marxist Leninist crap, what do you mean by orthodox and what crap do they rehash?

Was the last Labour manifesto boring or did it come up with the idea of the radical new green deal?

I know for fucking sure Starmer and his band of nobodies has not got a radical idea between them, they are trying to move Labour away from its Democratic Socialist roots to be a party like the American democrats,

What I find interesting is the younger vote. The Left leaning Labour vote is there to be harvested as the current Political model they see is ruining their chances. Housing - low pay - social mobility - public services - they are not blind to the Tory degradation of them all.

I have two children who in the past few years qualified with fists in the arts and have seen their chances stymied by Brexit and the loss of FoM.

However beyond that they and their mates are more politically astute - they did like a lot of the policies Corbyn was proposing - I have said that so did I but the country rejected them and its time to move on however a lot of them whilst accepting that don't accept that it is all bust. Plus they are well aware that the situation can be fluid in terms of leadership - they have learned that from the Tories in the past 5 or so years they have been in the real world.

Finally where the Tories have fucked up is the thing that makes them all bitter is they are financially fucked and they know it - they are saddled with debts - they can't afford a house ( even here in East Cleveland ) - they see old farts like me retiring on a pension they can only dream of etc etc etc - the Tories don't offer them any change to their lives and continuity Johnson candidates just make them laugh. Daughters friend who is on an electrical engineering apprenticeship degree course just laughs at the mention of our local Tory MP's name ( chief secretary to the treasury I think ) and says she can't wait to vote him out.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The shite aimed at momentum was disgusting, they were a grass roots campainging organisation that supported Corbyn, it was not full of Marxists that is just fucking nonsense created by the likes of the Mail. Momentum tried to rally support to stop that obnoxious Blairite LFI **** Luke Akehurst getting on the NEC. Thats that they did.

All this kow-towing to the RW media pisses me right off. As for the orthodox left rehashing Marxist Leninist crap, what do you mean by orthodox and what crap do they rehash?

Was the last Labour manifesto boring or did it come up with the idea of the radical new green deal?

Were the orthodox left at the heart of shaping that manifesto?

The Green new deal was something that came out of American politics.

John Macdonell's economic ideas were more pragmatic than idealogical.

I know for fucking sure Starmer and his band of nobodies has not got a radical idea between them, they are trying to move Labour away from its Democratic Socialist roots to be a party like the American democrats,

The Labour leadership contest has exposed new factions in the party | Jeremy Gilbert

Differences are becoming increasingly visible between the soft left, radical left and the orthodox left, says professor of cultural and political theory Jeremy Gilbert

www.theguardian.com

As a socialy Conservative communist you are part of the orthodox left mate. Although you are a more flexible thinker and possess alot more humanity than the average tanky so it isn't an exact fit.

Many of the things you have posted as things on your wishlist over the years can be found in the road to Socialism.

Does your lexit position differ from below?

"Linked to the leadership of unions such as Unite and the RMT, the orthodox left back Long-Bailey as Corbyn’s anointed successor. Under any other leader, their influence will drastically decline. The orthodox left still basically wants to implement the Communist party’s 1951 plan, The British Road to Socialism, with its vision of socialism being implemented in one country by a strong, centralised national government. They lean heavily towards a pro-Brexit position, while tending to interpret support for Brexit among working-class voters as incipient class consciousness rather than tabloid-inspired xenophobia."

 

[halfmist]

I am and always been a Democratic Socialist (looney leftie in modern parlance), I am anti capitalist and anti fascist, I am pro trade union and I believe in equality of opportunity. I believe in a strong state that provides cradle to grave welfare, an NHS free at the point of use, justice being available to everyone regardless of economic circumstances, a strong and well funded Police force, armed forces worthy of our nations standing, controlled but not discriminatory immigration, human rights for all, racial equality, social housing being available to all, nationalisation of all essential public services, I am a long time supporter of CND (my first ever political stance was a CND march in Manchester aged 14) I am wary of NATO expansionism, I was against the Iraq war as I am against all wars. I find the culture war stuff bewildering as it divides the working class quite deliberately and I am pro Working class. I am pro Brexit because the EU is a neo liberal construct designed to work for the owners of capital even though in the great Democratic Socialist tradition I am an internationalist who believes in co-operation rather than a Nationalist who believes in there own country to the detriment of others. I am also a patriot, I love my country and want our country to be the best it can possibly be for everyone who lives here. Economically I am Keynesian rather than Hayekian, I believe in progressive taxation, but also believe in the idiom that a fair days work deserves a fair days pay. The Blairite introduction of the minimum wage has been a disaster, it has created a baseline wage that means working people have to rely on foodbanks. Its 2022 not 1870 and charity should play no part in meeting societal ills especially in the 6th richest country on the planet, Just before the election of 1979 inequality was at an all time low, now its at an all time high. In my lifetime my country has become more unequal that at any time in history. That appals me from the perspective that we have so many new billionaires but have areas of our city that are the most deprived in Europe.

I want a Labour party that reflects my views, they are not extreme, I just wish that someday that person leads my old party. Until that happens and they really focus on the needs of the working class then I am out.

Wow that’s some wish list/ manifesto.
Your probably talking about East Germany pre unification.
I wouldn’t argue about somethings on your list.
My question would be how is it going to be paid for.
Higher taxation or further borrowing from the record amounts we are borrowing at the moment
You say you are anti capitalist.
All the self employed and small business owners are mini capitalists to some extent.
If you take away the incentive of reward from hard work and risk taking the Economy would suffer.
Also we live in an era of International markets.
Dominant State interference in the free market will not attract inward investment and will just encourage U.K. residents to invest overseas.
I think an equal Society is unachievable because at the end of the day we are all individual human beings with different wants and needs.
If we were to redistribute wealth, within a short period of time a pattern would re emerge, of the haves and the have nots.
I suppose the ones to ask what’s the best system is the East Germans.
Which system do they prefer, pre or post unification.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

You could always offer an opinion .... or as you frame it .... grown up talk.

The floor is yours ...

Not necessarily my party, I’m afraid. Do you need to talk?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Wow that’s some wish list/ manifesto.
I wouldn’t argue about somethings on your list.
My question would be how is it going to be paid for.
Higher taxation or further borrowing from the record amounts we are borrowing at the moment
You say you are anti capitalist.
All the self employed and small business owners are mini capitalists to some extent.
If you take away the incentive of reward from hard work and risk taking the Economy would suffer.
Also we live in an era of International markets.
Dominant State interference in the free market will not attract inward investment and encourage U.K. residents to invest overseas.
I think an equal Society is unachievable because at the end of the day we are all individual human beings with different wants and needs.
If we were to redistribute wealth, within a short period of time a pattern would re emerge, of the haves and the have nots.

I think it's a matter of fairness/balance. General taxation is at aproaching the highest level it's ever been while capital gains is at its lowest. I'm not suggesting capital gains should be back up around 50% as that would disincentivise business and enterprise as you suggest but I think there needs to be a better balance of corporate/personal taxation than present. Starmer is not going to do this, as for I suspect the first time ever this year we had the labour leader speaking out against increases to capital gains made by a Tory chancellor. ycnmiu.

 

[halfmist]

I think it's a matter of fairness/balance. General taxation is at aproaching the highest level it's ever been while capital gains is at its lowest. I'm not suggesting capital gains should be back up around 50% as that would disincentivise business and enterprise as you suggest but I think there needs to be a better balance of corporate/personal taxation than present. Starmer is not going to do this, as for I suspect the first time ever this year we had the labour leader speaking out against increases to capital gains made by a Tory chancellor. ycnmiu.

The whole tax system needs reforming no doubt.
Up to a few years ago by manipulating your affairs between Capital Gains and Income a husband and wife team one member staying at home to look after family could “earn” over £100k a year between them with no income tax or national insurance to pay.
At the same time a couple, one out at work paying tax and NI under PAYE and again, the other staying at home to look after family would have a combined tax and NI bill of around £34k literally doing a similar job.
Clearly this is unfair.
Even with root and branch reform of all taxes and with a promise the overall tax take does not increase there would not be a sufficient tax take to pay for the wish list of the left.
So we are back to how is it going to be paid for.
Anyone who goes to the Country with a manifesto saying we are going to increase taxes to pay for better public services will not win an Election.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Not sure how I feel about this - there is some validity to what she says but her angle of approach is typical dipper - I wish they would just declare UDI like Rhodesia did and fuck off - to become Planet Scouse and do us all a favour

 

[Gabriel]

Not sure how I feel about this - there is some validity to what she says but her angle of approach is typical dipper - I wish they would just declare UDI like Rhodesia did and fuck off - to become Planet Scouse and do us all a favour

I’m getting vague memories of: "That was a disaster – they should never have put me with that woman. Whose idea was that? Ridiculous."

 

[Postman Pep]

Time to disaffiliate more like ...