Keir Starmer

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I thought 'Hope some of you cunts starve' was quite a good policy to introduce. Definitely a vote winner.

That's already a communist policy ;)

 

[Ban-jani]

Hahaha. Next level abuse on Bluemoon

He’s apologised and I accepted it but what a post, absolutely brilliant if you ask me.

 

[Fame Monster]

He’s apologised and I accepted it but what a post, absolutely brilliant if you ask me.

Nice to see that.

I actually agreed with both of you btw and while I understood your point that corruption and greed have tarnished the movement at times, trade unionism is vital for a lot of workers and we could do with the trade unions now standing up for people's right to express (non-hateful) political opinions without facing the sack given the McCarthyist climate we find ourselves in at the minute.

I won't hold my breath though given Equity's recent display where they tried to blacklist Lawrence Fox. I doubt the same will be tried with Maxine Peake for some reason.

 

[Ban-jani]

Nice to see that.

I actually agreed with both of you btw and while I understood your point that corruption and greed have tarnished the movement at times, trade unionism is vital for a lot of workers and we could do with the trade unions now standing up for people's right to express (non-hateful) political opinions without facing the sack given the McCarthyist climate we find ourselves in at the minute.

I won't hold my breath though given Equity's recent display where they tried to blacklist Lawrence Fox. I doubt the same will be tried with Maxine Peake for some reason.

Oh I absolutely want Maxine Peake to continue working at the level she would have been prior to her article.

It’s irrelevant from her work and she has the right to say it.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

He has accused RLB of anti-Semitism, when the tweet was factually correct, Minneapolis police were trained by Israeli's,it is documented. The technique used on Floyd is a well known Isreali policing technique. Amnesty International has chronicled links between the Israeli defence force and US police forces. It is not a conspiracy theory and instead of building relationships with the jewish community he has further alienated them.

Mate, you know I've got all the time in the world for you but that's an outright lie. Israeli sources emphatically denied they'd taught any such techniques to US police forces. Even Maxine Peake accepted her comment was untrue and the Independent withdrew it. The fact is that a lot of American policemen are racist red-necks and hate black, Hispanic or other minorities. They weren't taught that in Tel Aviv.

But despite the fact racism against black people in the USA was very prevalent long before Israel even existed, this is all Israel's fault again. Yet you're not antisemitic and that's exactly the core of the problem that Corbyn created, convincing people that being antisemitic wasn't actually antisemitic.

The JLM (jewish labour movement) is appalled by the sacking and is calling for Starmer to resign for using AS as a tool to remove a rival, in effect they are saying he should sack himself for being an anti semite.

The Jewish Labour Movement actually supported Starmer's action, so that's another complete falsehood. Here's a quote from the Jewish Chronicle

The Jewish Labour Movement added:’’ We welcome Keir Starmer’s actions and hope that the Party, at every level, reflect and learn from this.’’

Now I'll be charitable here and assume you're not making this up and that you actually mean the Corbynite group, Jewish Voice For Labour. There's just one problem with that group, which is most of them aren't actually Jewish. Jackie Walker, who claims to have Jewish blood, oddly never mentioned this prior to Corbyn becoming leader. In fact she wrote about her Catholic upbringing, Then, all of a sudden, she's claiming she's Jewish.

Now, personally, I don't think Long-Bailey's actions were the worst thing in the world. But she gave Starmer the excuse he needed to dump her, which he was always going to do at the first opportunity he got.

 

[urban genie]

Oh for the love of...

That. Is. Not. The. Point. Being. Made.

The antisemitic trope is: "The Jews of Israel are teaching US authorities to kill blacks to incite a race war"

Thats a massive leap in what happened,

Amnesty international US did an article avout how the IDF have had representatives from many US police force come over to learn tactics with several hundred police officers visiting Israel for seminars.

What was wrongly said was that in that traing the two choke hold methods were taught, something that was denied by the Israeli police, and amnesty confirmed they don't know that.

Nobody accused anyone of purposely teaching the choke hold to kill blacks, that has been a suggestion from right wingers since the article.

The false assumption the choke holds were taught was because of several pictures of IDF members doing it to palestinians, but that does not prove it is a policy or taught to anyine else and not o e of the 3 versions of the interview claims it is taught to bring about a race war.

The unsubstantiated claim about the choke holds origins were wrong but conflating it into something else is equally wrong and in itself an antisemetic trope being populised by idiots


Peake talked bollocks on a subject withput fact checking, long bailey also didn't fact check and niether did the independant, so she had to go.

Still I think Reeve adulation of facists who wanted jews removed from the UK was a worse tweet yet she isn't sacked.

Also I think some coppers in every country can be bastards so to make assumption about any as a whole is stupidity at it's best

 

[Chris in London]

General Positive aside from foreign policy

The reason I ask is you said this

We’re only arsed about people down at our level and whether things are fair and how things can be improved in our lives

Pretty much everyone who has got a bad thing to say about Blair brings up foreign policy, as you did, specifically the Iraq war.

I wonder how much your day to day life was affected by the government’s foreign policy from 1997-2007.

 

[Metal Biker]

Thats a massive leap in what happened,

Amnesty international US did an article avout how the IDF have had representatives from many US police force come over to learn tactics with several hundred police officers visiting Israel for seminars.

What was wrongly said was that in that traing the two choke hold methods were taught, something that was denied by the Israeli police, and amnesty confirmed they don't know that.

Nobody accused anyone of purposely teaching the choke hold to kill blacks, that has been a suggestion from right wingers since the article.

The false assumption the choke holds were taught was because of several pictures of IDF members doing it to palestinians, but that does not prove it is a policy or taught to anyine else and not o e of the 3 versions of the interview claims it is taught to bring about a race war.

The unsubstantiated claim about the choke holds origins were wrong but conflating it into something else is equally wrong and in itself an antisemetic trope being populised by idiots


Peake talked bollocks on a subject withput fact checking, long bailey also didn't fact check and niether did the independant, so she had to go.

Still I think Reeve adulation of facists who wanted jews removed from the UK was a worse tweet yet she isn't sacked.

Also I think some coppers in every country can be bastards so to make assumption about any as a whole is stupidity at it's best

Yes, it is stupidity, that is the entire point, which is why it's used as an antisemitic belief that this is an actual thing that Israel is training US police to kill blacks to incite a race war. This is the conspiracy theory that antisemites believe and Peake, unwittingly or unknowingly, had parroted those exact same thoughts.

These aren't just my explanations, these are the conclusions of many Jewish figures on the subject matter, trying to explain to others who are confused why what Peake said was so offensive. RLB wasn't (just) an idiot for sharing the article, she was an idiot for, when pressed to apologise and retract the tweet, refused to do so citing some bullshit reason.

Another one bites the dust!

 

[hilts]

Those 2 days a week you are legally guaranteed to have off. The unions.
Minimum 4 weeks hols a year. The unions.
8 bank holidays a year off. The unions.
Virtually all H&S in the work place. The unions.
Employment protections. The unions.
The fact that until about 40 years ago you could get a shop floor job and buy your own house, own a car, and maybe have a holiday every year. The unions.
The fact that the nhs is still almost free. The unions.
Every pay rise you've ever had. The unions.
The fact that right wing types often reminisce about how society used to be a lot kinder in the old days? They're right it did. Because people used to care about their neighbour. The unions.

You're welcome you shower of ungrateful, swallowed-the-kool-aid, took the benefits of the unions sacrifices but now want to deny my children the same opportunities, cunts.

You deserve the cunts we have in power today. And remember, when they come for your job, your livelihood, your freedoms, because of your own selfish actions there will likely be no union to protect you.

I hope some of you cunts starve.

The unions certainly didn’t bring about the first one as it isn’t even the law, stopped reading after that.

 

[Bovril]

The unions certainly didn’t bring about the first one as it isn’t even the law, stopped reading after that.

Probably the most disgusting thing I have read on Bluemoon but as we know it fits the agenda, he hopes that 'some Cunts starve' that means he wants people to die which is vile... I hope he does also... What's the difference.

 

[hilts]

Probably the most disgusting thing I have read on Bluemoon but as we know it fits the agenda, he hopes that 'some Cunts starve' that means he wants people to die which is vile... I hope he does also... What's the difference.

The 40s years ago one was pure fiction that Hans Cristian would blush at.

 

[Bovril]

The 40s years ago one was pure fiction that Hans Cristian would blush at.

I cannot believe he said that and didn't get banned or at least got a warning, he actually said he wanted people to starve therefore die because they didn't vote the way he did, standards are failing badly here.

 

[urban genie]

Yes, it is stupidity, that is the entire point, which is why it's used as an antisemitic belief that this is an actual thing that Israel is training US police to kill blacks to incite a race war. This is the conspiracy theory that antisemites believe and Peake, unwittingly or unknowingly, had parroted those exact same thoughts.

These aren't just my explanations, these are the conclusions of many Jewish figures on the subject matter, trying to explain to others who are confused why what Peake said was so offensive. RLB wasn't (just) an idiot for sharing the article, she was an idiot for, when pressed to apologise and retract the tweet, refused to do so citing some bullshit reason.

Another one bites the dust!

Bit do you agree starmer is a hypocrite for not sacking Rachel Reeves?

 

[Metal Biker]

Bit do you agree starmer is a hypocrite for not sacking Rachel Reeves?

What does that have to do with the discussion about Labour MPs/members believing in antisemitic tropes?

Lets stick to the discussion we're meant to be having, yeah.

 

[urban genie]

What does that have to do with the discussion about Labour MPs/members believing in antisemitic tropes?

Lets stick to the discussion we're meant to be having, yeah.

She eulogised and spent several tweets praising a well known anti-semite and former MP who at the time agreed with hitler about the need to remove jews fron a country.

RLB was sacked for sharing something deemed antisemetic or supporting anisemetic language, so did reeves both should be gone.

I ain't defending Long bailey but want starmer not to pick and choose to suit, bin anyone who does it.

 

[Ban-jani]

I ain't defending Long bailey but want starmer not to pick and choose to suit, bin anyone who does it.

I‘ve liked your post for this part as I totally agree.

What evidence is there for Reeves? I’ve googled it and it’s only Corbyn fan sites that are publishing it.

 

[Metal Biker]

She eulogised and spent several tweets praising a well known anti-semite and former MP who agreed with hitler about the need to remove jews fron your country.

RLB was sacked for sharing something deemed antisemetic or supporting anisemetic language, so did reeves both should be gone.

Yet you're on here criticising Starmer for sacking RLB...

Reading the tweets it looks like Reeves was praising Astor for being the first "woman" in Parliament and her role in the Suffragette movement, back in February, before Starmer was leader. It's likely she didn't know, or was ignorant, NOT an excuse RLB can claim when she even admitted she wasn't praising the "whole" article, just 'sentiments' of it.

By the looks of things, hardly anyone kicked up a fuss about her praising of Astor at the time and are only mentioning it now in defence of RLB's sacking at the hands of centrist Starmer (usually followed by comments of him being a "red Tory" and "the centre left"). I'm starting to think people don't really care that Reeves praised a Nazi sympathiser and instead are using the incident as a political football... nice.

RLB shared a sentiment by someone who readily shared an antisemitic conspiracy theory that wasn't true, and then when given a chance to retract it, refused to do so and Starmer's hand was forced. Reeves appears to have praised Astor on the grounds of her being the first woman in Parliament, a suffragette, not for her views on Jews. Reeves was praising a groundbreaking moment of the first female MP from a feminism mindset, ignorant of the reality of the character of Astor (and clearly of the fact that many suffragettes later joined the British Union of Fascists). RLB shared a known antisemitic conspiracy theory and didn't acknowledge it.

I'd still say RLB deserved to go much more than Reeves, who is displaying ignorance rather than malice. If Reeves is given a chance to apologise and denounce Astor, and refuses, then she too deserves to go.

 

[Metal Biker]

I‘ve liked your post for this part as I totally agree.

What evidence is there for Reeves? I’ve googled it and it’s only Corbyn fan sites that are publishing it.

It's only being used as a defence for RLB's sacking and a way to attack Starmer and Labour's shift to the centre left.

They didn't give two shits about it in February.

 

[urban genie]

I‘ve liked your post for this part as I totally agree.

What evidence is there for Reeves? I’ve googled it and it’s only Corbyn fan sites that are publishing it.

Still up on her twitter




At the time in feb quite a few told her it was ill advised.

The reasoning why it isn't considered the same as others who have been sanctioned for praising kniwn historical antisemites was never given.

Some may say it is irrelevant, but in my opinion in such a sensitive time it is just as bad.

Anyway Arthur low and Love are on glasto on bbc 4 so if you reply I appologies as probably won't answer till morning ;-)

 

[urban genie]

Yet you're on here criticising Starmer for sacking RLB...

Reading the tweets it looks like Reeves was praising Astor for being the first "woman" in Parliament and her role in the Suffragette movement, back in February, before Starmer was leader. It's likely she didn't know, or was ignorant, NOT an excuse RLB can claim when she even admitted she wasn't praising the "whole" article, just 'sentiments' of it.

By the looks of things, hardly anyone kicked up a fuss about her praising of Astor at the time and are only mentioning it now in defence of RLB's sacking at the hands of centrist Starmer. I'm starting to think people don't really care that Reeves praised a Nazi sympathiser and instead are using the incident as a political football... nice.

RLB shared a sentiment by someone who readily shared an antisemitic conspiracy theory that wasn't true, and then when given a chance to retract it, refused to do so and Starmer's hand was forced. Reeves appears to have praised Astor on the grounds of her being the first woman in Parliament, a suffragette, not for her views on Jews. Reeves was praising a groundbreaking moment of the first female MP from a feminism mindset, ignorant, (clearly of the fact that many suffragettes later joined the British Union of Fascists). RLB shared a known antisemitic conspiracy theory.

I'd still say RLB deserved to go much more than Reeves, who is displaying ignorance rather than malice. If Reeves is given a chance to apologise and denounce Astor, and refuses, then she too deserves to go.

I said yesterday she should have g9ne and said tge same today so I am not criticising her sacking and have no issue with it.

So please don't decide my opinion.

As above Love are on and watching that is a damn sight better thing to be doing than talk on here on friday night.

Will reply in the morn if necessary have a good wvening :-)