Keir Starmer

The perfect fumble said:
If you go over to the Trump/Biden threads you see the same loaded question all the time, anyone who is not 100% supportive of Biden is always asked the question "then who do you want Biden or Trump?" to which the only answer can be Biden, if anyone deviates from this they're accused of being fuckwits. Similarly if you ask most people in here "who would you rather have Starmer or Johnson" most people will say Starmer and if you deviate, as I did, you get accused of extremism.

But the reply to these loaded questions is entirely dictated by the nature of the question, as I posted earlier they are...

"examples of loaded questions.

They contain information that you want confirmed rather than a question that tries to get at the true answer."

When you didn't get confirmation from me, you accused of being in a socialist dreamworld and playing games. I then replied that you didn't know what a loaded question was and didn't know shit from Shinola and the conversation came to an end.

This place is chock full of posters who post only to get confirmation of what they believe, I'm not accusing you of being one, but you behaved as such in our conversation.

I'm no angel but I try to steer away from loaded questions, they are a dead end and a sure fire way to drive the conversation in to the ground, because that's what they do.
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You were playing games.

My posts were my honest opinion. I don’t seek confirmation from anyone.

Apologies for labelling you a socialist. I have no problem with socialism.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You're welcome.
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I was just going to edit my post but as you've responded I'll make a new post.

My position is this.

I am sick of unelectable Labour leaders and their worshippers.

Labour now has a credible leader and the 'true socialists' want to call him a Tory and refuse to vote for him.

Do I claim that Starmer is the saviour of all the ills of this country ? No, what I claim is that he has a shot at replacing the shower who are currently masquerading as a Government.

Just like with Biden sometimes a better grade of **** is the best we can hope for.

For the avoidance of doubt I don't think that Starmer is a **** but just like Blair he understands what is and isn't achievable.
 
Rascal said:
Why encourage the neo-liberal metro middle class centrist FBFE crowd to think they know best? They fucked the party up before and took it away from its Socialist roots, they will do it again with their EU and cultural obsessions, they hate the working class just as much as the Tories. They don't give two fucks about the working class in the North all they care about is there three week stay in their Tuscan villa, who serves them latte and do Waitrose stock granola whilst waving EU flags so little Timothy and Penelope can go inter railing during their public school holidays. Their idea of Socialism is what they do in a wine bar drinking the latest Italian shiraz and Spanish merlot whilst chatting about how handsome Blair was and what a lovely war Iraq was.

Marx is what Penelope takes before running for the school athletics team and Bevan is a form of bed they used at Ampleforth boarding school. Atlee is where they plan to have their granny flat and they have a secret longing for Thatcher memorabilia and love the Queen's corgis as they one called Mandleson. They like to give charity especially help for the homeless but will step over and snigger at them on the streets because they block the doorways to their favourite vintage arts shops, they read the Guardian and love rugger. The working class are oiks who are thick and wear clogs and flat caps, drive Hillman imps, Penny Farthings or horse drawn carriages which block them from taking Timothy and Penelope to Oboe class in their top of the range Porsche 4x4 SUVs Greggs is a place they wouldn't be seen dead in as they prefer Waitrose New Zealand lamb and spinach pastries and pubs are full of loud mouthed uncouth neanderthals who cant read and write or speak properly.

Everybody who voted for Brexit is a racist as they have friends from France who they met at a chateau who were sun tanned and they were nice people and the other black people they have seen are miners on the TV after they finished a shift at Orgreave just before the Police attacked them for being working class oiks and demanding a pay rise.

Timothy and Penelope plan to be Labour MPs under Starmer and will be parachuted into a safe Labour seat they have never heard off or visited in preference to the local Union leader who has fought for workers rights for half a century. First though they will do the obligatory Politics, Philosophy, Economics degree at Oxford and achieve a 2-2 degree before daddy uses his company to fund Starmer's campaign for re-election against those awful Lefties thus guarenteing an internship with a Labour MP who should be a Tory because go back to line 1, rinse and repeat. rinse and repeat.
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@Rascal

I’m still grieving mate.

We had a once in a lifetime chance to change the country for the better. People believed the lies and the fear and put these Tory bastards in charge.

I wish I i had an alternative that I could join would fight for real positive change. I was in Nottingham East which is a swing constituency and Nadia is a proper Labour MP with her principles and work ethic. I’m now in Nottingham South. Lilian Greenwood has a pretty safe seat.

I feel as though I have to hold my nose and vote for her whilst at the same time agitating at my branch to push for the election policies to remain. Covid 19 has saved Starmer from from a conference kicking.
 
mat said:
@Rascal

I’m still grieving mate.

We had a once in a lifetime chance to change the country for the better. People believed the lies and the fear and put these Tory bastards in charge.

I wish I i had an alternative that I could join would fight for real positive change. I was in Nottingham East which is a swing constituency and Nadia is a proper Labour MP with her principles and work ethic. I’m now in Nottingham South. Lilian Greenwood has a pretty safe seat.

I feel as though I have to hold my nose and vote for her whilst at the same time agitating at my branch to push for the election policies to remain. Covid 19 has saved Starmer from from a conference kicking.
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I feel the same, we were so close and then we were violated by supposed Labour MPs and their lackies at HQ who would prefer a Tory government to Socialist Government. Why on earth where they in the party and why are they still in the party. As long as they remain I cannot bring myself to vote Labour. I voted for Blair because I grew up with Thatcherism and longed for something different, Blair excited me at first and turned out to be a huge disappointment, more disappointing than any Tory PM has been, because he promised more, I know what we will get with the Tories as they are all cunts, I didn't expect us to have our own ****.

Why would I want to vote for Starmer who I acknowledge has done a fairly decent job? He is not what I want though as he is not a Socialist and he has done nothing about the traitorous cunts and done everything to marginalise people like me. Its no longer the party I have supported all my life. My earlier post was a bit a tongue in cheek but it also has a vein of truth in that the working class don't seem to matter anymore. Its all about pandering to the new labour types and believing in this we must be centrists approach to attract Tories. I don't want fucking Tories I want Socialists and it irks that our last manifesto was popular, sensible and attractive but was undermined by the constant attacks from within our own party. They enabled Johnson, they are those who I hold to blame for this government, because Tories are always going to Tory.

The lies and fear spread about the Labour party and backed up by many in the CLP and HQ has been devastating on the Party, it should be seen as a badge of honour as it shows how scared the establishment elite were of a Socialist government but its no badge as we lost because of the lies and fear. I want to think these people got exactly what they deserved with Johnson, but I don't because I love my country and hate to see what a laughing stock it has become under the current administration.

The Labour party is safe now, its not a threat to the Capitalists as Starmer is in their pocket and he is lauded by the influential Murdoch media and the capitalists can breathe a sigh of relief because if Labour were elected now the capitalists know they will be getting a mild version of conservatism and their wealth, power and influence is safe.

It does break my heart Matt, I want this country to be a good place, that people are proud of, where nobody is homeless, noboby goes hungry, people get rewarded properly for their Labour and there is a proper safety net so when hard times come around they can fare well. Instead we have a country where the far right is on the rise, disaster capitalism has free reign, covid is killing people, hate is commonplace, virtue is frowned upon, wanting social justice means you are a freak, believing in equality of opportunity means you live in Narnia and loving peoples from around the world means you are a snowflake. The politics of hate has triumphed over the politics of good and Starmer wont change that because he is in the pockets of those who create the hate as a cover for their own agenda.

As the great George Orwell wrote.

" politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia"


We deserve so much better than what we have.
 
dave_blue12 said:
Apologies for labelling you a socialist.
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This one line is indicative of where politics is at the moment. Dave is apologising for calling somebody a Socialist, its as though somebody being a Socialist makes them a leper or man from mars. That is how powerful the anti - Socialist propaganda has been as believing in a fair and just society now makes you a freak.

Nobody should ever have to apologise for being a Socialist, i wear it proudly on my sleeve as i believe in the power of Socialism to create the sort of society that everyone will benefit from rather than the society we have where a small number of very wealthy people benefit.
 
Rascal said:
This one line is indicative of where politics is at the moment. Dave is apologising for calling somebody a Socialist, its as though somebody being a Socialist makes them a leper or man from mars. That is how powerful the anti - Socialist propaganda has been as believing in a fair and just society now makes you a freak.

Nobody should ever have to apologise for being a Socialist, i wear it proudly on my sleeve as i believe in the power of Socialism to create the sort of society that everyone will benefit from rather than the society we have where a small number of very wealthy people benefit.
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Whilst I agree with the thrust of what you say my intent was somewhat different.

My intention was to apologise for labelling the poster as anything. I made an assumption.

But back to the thrust of your point. You are correct that the media have waged a propaganda war against the left.
 
The problem Starmer has is that eventually the weekly 'shooting fish in a barrel' at PMQ's will end and he will actually have to set out his own policies and ideas. The studied avoidance of an opinion of his own will serve Starmer well to a point, but will eventually become a problem as we saw with the Starmer led fudge of a policy on brexit last year - there comes a point where you can't be all things to all men and have to take a position.
The division within the party that he used to usurp Corbyn is still there and he will need to spend the next three years purging the party of anyone that is politically and ideologically to the left of Ken Clarke. The attempt to frame Corbyn as a sort of Dr Mengele / Marx hybrid has divided the party like never before, whereas the genius of Blair was to give at least the impression of inclusivity.
He clearly has the Murdoch press on side which is vital and tells you all you need to know about his politics, but his policy ideas problem will not go away until he gets rid of the socialist element within. It's a struggle that has existed within Labour since it became a party run by lawyers and graduates rather than trade unionists (Generalisation I know).
 
Begining to think I should have voted for Lisa Nandy rather than this waste of space plank of wood that is starmer, boring, stiff, passionless and panders to party factions linked to big business while ignoring or not interested in the party roots and core.

About inspiring as stuart pearce as a manager
 
Starmer's pledged to keep a lot of the 2017 manifesto if I'm not mistaken?

If so, I don't understand some of the far-left's hostility towards him.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yeah but he is not Johnson - Johnson is fucking dense stupid and a waste of space which Starmer isn't
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Being less of a twat than BJ is hardly difficult. I regard my kids as less twattish than Boris, but do not recommend either of them run the country. Starmer seems a decent enough human being tbh, but I don't think he's much more likely than BJ to lead his party to the next GE. Not because he's terrible, just I think there is more bloodletting and internal feuding to be done in labour yet.
 
Fame Monster said:
Starmer's pledged to keep a lot of the 2017 manifesto if I'm not mistaken?

If so, I don't understand some of the far-left's hostility towards him.
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I don't understand why you think its the far left.

Starmer has purged the party of virtually the whole left and its the centrists that remain, Socialism is a word that is not spoken anymore, so why does the Labour party even exist. I do not trust him, he used big business to fund his leadership campaign and writes in the RW media, that indicates to me he is going to take the party rightwards and embrace the principles of Blairism, which is pro-free market, anti Trade Union, economically neo-liberal and socially liberal.

How the party is still one party at all surprises me, because if i was a Labour MP i would have done the honourable thing and resigned the party whip and stood in Parliament as an Independent Socialist.
 
It's not the time to be party political, but to support the measures the gov use so there is clarity.


Fucking kop out answer.


Honestly marr has asked him what he would do and if he wpuld support a locdown and he won't answer or have an opinion of his own.

Have a bit of passion man and call out this shitshow for what it is.


A lot better on being analyitical of the situation, but not very visonary
 
urban genie said:
It's not the time to be party political, but to support the measures the gov use so there is clarity.


Fucking kop out answer.


Honestly marr has asked him what he would do and if he wpuld support a locdown and he won't answer or have an opinion of his own.

Have a bit of passion man and call out this shitshow for what it is.


A lot better on being analyitical of the situation, but not very visonary
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I assume Starmer’s theme is competence. Not Brexit good or bad, but competence in handling the Brexit situation. Same with Covid. Not lockdown good or bad, but competence in handling the situation.

Starmer wants the battle on his terms not the Govts, and competence, cronyism and corruption are the weak points that everyone can relate to.

In difficult times Starmer wants to be the technocrat who can solve the problems, rather than the visionary leader with no actual plan given that’s how we got into this mess.
 
Fame Monster said:
Starmer's pledged to keep a lot of the 2017 manifesto if I'm not mistaken?

If so, I don't understand some of the far-left's hostility towards him.
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Because he doesn't mean it.

And he doesn't mean it because he doesn't believe it. It was necessary for him to mouth the policies at the hustings, he would not have been elected otherwise, but the questions remain because his history tells a different story, and nothing he has done since being elected have dispelled the feeling that he's nothing more than a boring Blair clone.
 
BobKowalski said:
I assume Starmer’s theme is competence. Not Brexit good or bad, but competence in handling the Brexit situation. Same with Covid. Not lockdown good or bad, but competence in handling the situation.

Starmer wants the battle on his terms not the Govts, and competence, cronyism and corruption are the weak points that everyone can relate to.

In difficult times Starmer wants to be the technocrat who can solve the problems, rather than the visionary leader with no actual plan given that’s how we got into this mess.
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But he didn't once expose government incompetence or cronyism and never once pointed to the govs weak points, he gave nothing answers and wouldn't answer on brexit or what should be done next and the two national issues covid and brexit, as in 12 weeks while probably back in lockdown and us in a possible fucked up exit from europe we are probably shagged.

Just the government need to plan and we will back that plan.

He said this morning the square root of fuck all on anything.

Well no when asked about policies said he didn't need any till 4 years time.
 
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