Keir Starmer

Down the rabbit hole we go....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nts-of-antisemitic-messages-after-ehrc-report

Labour to investigate complaints of antisemitic messages after EHRC report
Crackdown amid reports of rise in social media posts prompts concerns from Corbyn allies....


"Corbyn was suspended for saying in his response to the EHRC report that while he accepted its recommendations, the problem of antisemitism in Labour had been “dramatically overstated for political reasons” by opponents and the media.

One issue yet to be determined is whether simply agreeing with, or repeating, this statement would amount to an offence"....


So, to agree with Corbyn makes one an anti-Semite, presumably the folk who've contributed to Corbyn's legal fund, which is fast approaching £400,000, are anti-Semites too.

Not long now before those who voted for him are accused of being anti-Semites.
I don't know about a hole, its more like a warren.

If you look at the charge sheets of Labour MPs that the CAA have handed to Starmer today accusing them of antisemitic behaviour I think it is quite possible that in the CAAs eyes the whole Labour party is guilty.
 
I don't know about a hole, its more like a warren.

If you look at the charge sheets of Labour MPs that the CAA have handed to Starmer today accusing them of antisemitic behaviour I think it is quite possible that in the CAAs eyes the whole Labour party is guilty.

The CAA is well dodgy, it's an overtly political organisation.

Its purpose is to limit freedom of speech by attacking as 'anti-Semitic' opponents of the Israeli state. It's been around for about five years and enjoys charitable status courtesy of our Tory betters.

If Starmer is in bed with these fellas, the Labour Party is in bigger doo-doo than I thought.
 
I don't know about a hole, its more like a warren.

If you look at the charge sheets of Labour MPs that the CAA have handed to Starmer today accusing them of antisemitic behaviour I think it is quite possible that in the CAAs eyes the whole Labour party is guilty.
Hope they've updated their website to spare the deceased. In all seriousness my issue is the idea that this a straightforward example of anti-racism and if you're not aboard you're part of the problem. Laughably this includes posters who have spent the summer jumping through hoops to question the underlying message of BLM.
 
Hope they've updated their website to spare the deceased. In all seriousness my issue is the idea that this a straightforward example of anti-racism and if you're not aboard you're part of the problem. Laughably this includes posters who have spent the summer jumping through hoops to question the underlying message of BLM.
Is there still a proscribed list of people who must be denounced for one to be on board? Gerald Kaufman and such?
 
Of course its never ok, 1 person is 1 too many, but the way it has been framed is it is the whole party, which is nonsense and whether you agree or not the MSM did fuel the notion that it was the whole party and it was rife. As I say 1 is 1 too many, but the tarring of every member as antisemitic is just plain wrong and was done for nefarious reasons. Again whether you agree or not it played a part in a much wider systematic attack against the Labour party helped by the enemy within who for Labour MPs feared Socialism more than Johnson. There is also a much wider context to the whole debate as well, that of course is Brexit. Labour had to be discredited as a political movement because it was deemed to be Pro-EU, I am absolutely 100% certain that if Labour had taken the Lexit position then the antisemitism allegations would have been barely mentioned in the MSM, of course that does not excuse the fact that antisemitism existed because it did and there is none and should never be any defence of those who carried out the antisemitic attacks.

The use of the word "cult" is also rife, it makes out that advocating for Socialism is akin to being a member of the Moonies, it is derogatory and atypical of the RW media's Macarthyite Stance against the left. That is another debate though and not to be confused with the issue at hand. The cult issue is I believe one reason why Corbyn did fight back and why he is being encouraged to fight back further and if need be take Starmer to court. He was undermined at every turn by the PLP despite him having the overwhelming backing of the membership. Corbyn though tried to include those who were against him, me personally I would have expelled them for acting against the memberships democratic decision. Whether his decision to do that is right or not it is supported by the left of the Labour party and whether you like Starmer or not his decision to expel Corbyn has split the party in the two, he has pitted what you refer to as the cultists but I would call Socialists against the Social Liberals and although throughout history the two factions have always had an uneasy relationship I really do think that this is the final straw and the party has to split and go its seperate ways because Socialism and Social liberalism are not compatible because as Brexit (yes Brexit again) has shown that the Pro EU Social liberals cannot forsee a future outside the Neo-liberal club and the Socialists see the future as being outside the neo-liberal club.

From a personal point of view I left the Labour party when Starmer got rid of RLB and he brought back the anti welfarist Reeves back into the fold. Labour has gone for me, its sad and it ended badly in a place I abhorred. The party of equality been found to be home to people who pushed discrimination is too much and I am convinced Starmer helped push that agenda so he could have the party for himself and his acolytes. I will not vote for Labour again whilst he remains leader and unless the CPGB stand in my constituency I cant see myself voting at all.
Sums up brilliantly the miopic 'sect' rationale. Do things our way or we walk out. Flakey socialists happy to see Tories in power rather than compromise. Right on brother.
 

Universities may face cuts if they reject definition of antisemitism, says education minister​

Universities could have their funding cut if they refuse to adopt an internationally recognised definition of antisemitism, the education secretary has warned.
Gavin Williamson has said he will take action against higher education institutions if they do not adopt the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism before Christmas.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...es-gavin-williamson-funding-cuts-b911500.html


You have to admire the Jewish lobby, they're very good.
 

Universities may face cuts if they reject definition of antisemitism, says education minister​

Universities could have their funding cut if they refuse to adopt an internationally recognised definition of antisemitism, the education secretary has warned.
Gavin Williamson has said he will take action against higher education institutions if they do not adopt the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism before Christmas.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...es-gavin-williamson-funding-cuts-b911500.html


You have to admire the Jewish lobby, they're very good.

Out of interest have the Tory Party adopted it yet? I remember a couple of years back when this all blew up it was pointed out that whilst Labour were "modifying" the wording the Tories hadn't adopted it nor was there anything in their rulebook to advise members on what to look out for and how to report antisemitism within the party
 
Out of interest have the Tory Party adopted it yet? I remember a couple of years back when this all blew up it was pointed out that whilst Labour were "modifying" the wording the Tories hadn't adopted it nor was there anything in their rulebook to advise members on what to look out for and how to report antisemitism within the party

I'm not sure whether the Tories adopted it. Under Theresa May the UK adopted it in 2018.

Back in 2018 the Conservative party rule book didn't specifically use the term antisemitism at all. I don't know if that's changed.
 
The IHRA definition is all perfectly reasonable and can't surely hold any difficulty for anyone apart from it seems the bit about comparing the actions of the Israeli state to nazi Germany. Surely if Israel feels unable to stop the bits of its foreign policy that lead to the comparison then that bit could be left out until they have found a solution to their Palestinian problem?
 
Lavery talking of MPs splitting.

If Evans expels Corbyn, I can see the membership halving and a True Labour/Old Labour forming with Corbyn at the helm with McDonnell and Abbott and the class of 2019 in tow, funded by McCluskey and a few other unions.

Would be interesting to see if a properly financed socialist movement would be more popular than the predominantly capitalist approach favoured by the pre-existing parties.
 
Lavery talking of MPs splitting.

If Evans expels Corbyn, I can see the membership halving and a True Labour/Old Labour forming with Corbyn at the helm with McDonnell and Abbott and the class of 2019 in tow, funded by McCluskey and a few other unions.

Would be interesting to see if a properly financed socialist movement would be more popular than the predominantly capitalist approach favoured by the pre-existing parties.
The problem with that is the same problem Starmer has - left vote split into two between the sort of left party and the actual left. This guarantees a Tory win in every election ever basically.
 
Hope they've updated their website to spare the deceased. In all seriousness my issue is the idea that this a straightforward example of anti-racism and if you're not aboard you're part of the problem. Laughably this includes posters who have spent the summer jumping through hoops to question the underlying message of BLM.

This is an artists impression of the Holocaust Memorial that is very likely to be built in Westminster....

1604144728510.jpeg

Whatever one thinks about it, it's fair to say that this country played no direct part in the Holocaust.

This is the statue of Slave Trader Edward Colston.

Statue-of-Edward-Colston-281x295.jpg


Whatever one thinks about it, it's fair to say this country played a direct part in the slave trade.

The Holocaust Memorial is almost certain to go ahead and while there are some concerns regarding its aesthetics and security issues, it's likely to get all party approval.

The removal of Colston on the other hand provoked this response back in the summer....

The Black Lives Matters protests have been “subverted by thuggery”, Boris Johnson has claimed, amid Conservative anger at the removal of a controversial statue of a slave trader in Bristol. The Prime Minister said protesters who clashed with police this weekend had overseen a “betrayal of the cause they purport to serve” - and warned they would be “held to account”. The comments came as Home Secretary Priti Patel branded demonstrators in Bristol who pulled down a statue of slave trader Edward Colston “utterly disgraceful”.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...own-plus-diane-abbott-on-welfare-after-corbyn
 
The problem with that is the same problem Starmer has - left vote split into two between the sort of left party and the actual left. This guarantees a Tory win in every election ever basically.

It depends how much it's split into two. If they lose 1 million votes to True Labour but pick up 1 million from Conservatives and Lib Dems then they will probably be able to form a government.
 
Whatever one thinks about it, it's fair to say that this country played no direct part in the Holocaust.
Really?
  • We closed the borders of the Palestine Mandate to Jewish refugees in the mid-1930's when it was becoming clear where things were going.
  • We applied the most stringent conditions to any Jews wanting to come to the UK from Germany, making it all but impossible (although brave officials like Frank Foley did his best to help).
  • We grudgingly took a relative handful of unaccompanied children on the eve of war, leaving their parents and less fortunate siblings to their inevitable fate.
  • Even after the war was over, we forcibly used military forces to stop survivors going to Palestine and, in many cases, sent them back to the very camps they'd been liberated from (albeit under somewhat different conditions).
And that's why I agree with you that there is no place for a Holocaust Memorial in this country.
 
Really?
  • We closed the borders of the Palestine Mandate to Jewish refugees in the mid-1930's when it was becoming clear where things were going.
  • We applied the most stringent conditions to any Jews wanting to come to the UK from Germany, making it all but impossible (although brave officials like Frank Foley did his best to help).
  • We grudgingly took a relative handful of unaccompanied children on the eve of war, leaving their parents and less fortunate siblings to their inevitable fate.
  • Even after the war was over, we forcibly used military forces to stop survivors going to Palestine and, in many cases, sent them back to the very camps they'd been liberated from (albeit under somewhat different conditions).
And that's why I agree with you that there is no place for a Holocaust Memorial in this country.

It's so refreshing when you and I agree.

You're right, as your points clearly demonstrate, this country did not play any direct part in the Holocaust.

Where we disagree is that you seem to disapprove of the Holocaust memorial they're planning for Westminster, I must admit I find that very surprising.

I wholeheartedly approve of the memorial.

What strange times we live in.
 
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Down the rabbit hole we go....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nts-of-antisemitic-messages-after-ehrc-report

Labour to investigate complaints of antisemitic messages after EHRC report
Crackdown amid reports of rise in social media posts prompts concerns from Corbyn allies....


"Corbyn was suspended for saying in his response to the EHRC report that while he accepted its recommendations, the problem of antisemitism in Labour had been “dramatically overstated for political reasons” by opponents and the media.

One issue yet to be determined is whether simply agreeing with, or repeating, this statement would amount to an offence"....


So, to agree with Corbyn makes one an anti-Semite, presumably the folk who've contributed to Corbyn's legal fund, which is fast approaching £400,000, are anti-Semites too.

Not long now before those who voted for him are accused of being anti-Semites.

Thought crime....

I don't know about a hole, its more like a warren.

If you look at the charge sheets of Labour MPs that the CAA have handed to Starmer today accusing them of antisemitic behaviour I think it is quite possible that in the CAAs eyes the whole Labour party is guilty.
The usual suspects ride again.

Not one word of condemnation or from the Three Socialist Musketeers for abhorrent racism, or any sense of shame that it's happening in their supposedly anti-racist party. Not the hope that it gets dealt with swiftly and decisively, thereby removing the stain of racism from their party.
 
The usual suspects ride again.

Not one word of condemnation or from the Three Socialist Musketeers for abhorrent racism, or any sense of shame that it's happening in their supposedly anti-racist party. Not the hope that it gets dealt with swiftly and decisively, thereby removing the stain of racism from their party.

The game's just starting.
 
This is an artists impression of the Holocaust Memorial that is very likely to be built in Westminster....

View attachment 4650

Whatever one thinks about it, it's fair to say that this country played no direct part in the Holocaust.

This is the statue of Slave Trader Edward Colston.

Statue-of-Edward-Colston-281x295.jpg


Whatever one thinks about it, it's fair to say this country played a direct part in the slave trade.

The Holocaust Memorial is almost certain to go ahead and while there are some concerns regarding its aesthetics and security issues, it's likely to get all party approval.

The removal of Colston on the other hand provoked this response back in the summer....

The Black Lives Matters protests have been “subverted by thuggery”, Boris Johnson has claimed, amid Conservative anger at the removal of a controversial statue of a slave trader in Bristol. The Prime Minister said protesters who clashed with police this weekend had overseen a “betrayal of the cause they purport to serve” - and warned they would be “held to account”. The comments came as Home Secretary Priti Patel branded demonstrators in Bristol who pulled down a statue of slave trader Edward Colston “utterly disgraceful”.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...own-plus-diane-abbott-on-welfare-after-corbyn

I wouldn't have a problem with a memorial to slavery and I think it would be a good idea but we have an international slavery museum that's financed by the state which already serves as a memorial.

Plus the difference between slavery and the Holocaust though is that one was a lot more recent and affected a lot of people's living ancestors. Slavery, on the other hand, was abolished so long ago that nobody alive has ever suffered from it directly or heard first hand accounts.

In a similar way that the expulsion of Jews for 400 years from this country isn't remembered as well as the Holocaust, neither is slavery.
 
The usual suspects ride again.

Not one word of condemnation or from the Three Socialist Musketeers for abhorrent racism, or any sense of shame that it's happening in their supposedly anti-racist party. Not the hope that it gets dealt with swiftly and decisively, thereby removing the stain of racism from their party.
Maybe see about adding a poll to the thread then we can all express appropriate sentiment and hopefully avoid being on your list?
 
The usual suspects ride again.

Not one word of condemnation or from the Three Socialist Musketeers for abhorrent racism, or any sense of shame that it's happening in their supposedly anti-racist party. Not the hope that it gets dealt with swiftly and decisively, thereby removing the stain of racism from their party.

There must be someone you can report us to.
 

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