Keir Starmer

Rascal said:
Cheers Fumbs

It is very damning, i watched it earlier this morning. Starmer is in serious trouble unless he changes tack.
Click to expand...

He won't.

The Tories are a formidable election winning machine with a moribund party and Starmer knows this. I fear he plans to ditch policies he had to mouth during the leadership election, gut the party, fuck off the unions and find alternative funding from the corporate sector.

Looks like he wants to turn the Labour party in to Clinton Democrats.
 
stonerblue said:
My post is a genuine request.
My only understanding is Livingstone said something and Corbyn refused to 'condemn' it or boot him out of the party?
Then Corbyn refusing to give 'a full and frank apology' for something he did or didn't do or say?
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Livingstone was suspended from the party before Corbyn was elected leader, he resigned from the party before his suspension was to be discussed under Corbyn's leadership.

Corbyn's suspension, at least on paper is because of this from Starmer......

"problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party. That it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack.

Then, frankly, you are part of the problem too. And you should be nowhere near the Labour Party either"

The above is a snippet from Starmer's response to the EHRC's report...

https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statement-in-response-to-ehrcs-report-into-anti-semitism/

Starmer is demanding this Facebook post be deleted and a complete and unequivocal apology from Corbyn.....




Jeremy Corbyn​

29 October at 03:35 ·
My statement following the publication of the EHRC report:
“Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so.
“The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process.
“Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left.
“Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should.
“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.
“My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.”

The issue centres round this....

“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media."

As this is demonstrably true Corbyn refuses to delete, which of course puts him at odds with Starmer's position as quoted above.

This is worth a watch, it's from what Prestwich_Blue calls "the wrong type of Jew".....

 
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The perfect fumble said:
Livingstone was suspended from the party before Corbyn was elected leader, he resigned from the party before his suspension was to be discussed under Corbyn's leadership.

Corbyn's suspension, at least on paper is because of this from Starmer......

"problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party. That it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack.

Then, frankly, you are part of the problem too. And you should be nowhere near the Labour Party either"

The above is a snippet from Starmer's response to the EHRC's report...

https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statement-in-response-to-ehrcs-report-into-anti-semitism/

Starmer is demanding this Facebook post be deleted and a complete and unequivocal apology from Corbyn.....




Jeremy Corbyn​

29 October at 03:35 ·
My statement following the publication of the EHRC report:
Click to expand...

The perfect fumble said:
But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements,
Click to expand...
This bit is crucial i feel to his whole statement, it indicates that before 2018 McNicol and the other traitors were actively working against him as leader and against the party as a whole and only after 2018 was he able to make progress because Formby was in position.
 
Rascal said:
This bit is crucial i feel to his whole statement, it indicates that before 2018 McNicol and the other traitors were actively working against him as leader and against the party as a whole and only after 2018 was he able to make progress because Formby was in position.
Click to expand...

You're right, but that can never be recognised, because to do so would require an acknowledgement that Corbyn was not the problem, and that defeats the object.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Livingstone was suspended from the party before Corbyn was elected leader, he resigned from the party before his suspension was to be discussed under Corbyn's leadership.

Corbyn's suspension, at least on paper is because of this from Starmer......

"problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party. That it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack.

Then, frankly, you are part of the problem too. And you should be nowhere near the Labour Party either"

The above is a snippet from Starmer's response to the EHRC's report...

https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statement-in-response-to-ehrcs-report-into-anti-semitism/

Starmer is demanding this Facebook post be deleted and a complete and unequivocal apology from Corbyn.....




Jeremy Corbyn​

29 October at 03:35 ·
My statement following the publication of the EHRC report:
“Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so.
“The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process.
“Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left.
“Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should.
“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.
“My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.”

The issue centres round this....

“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media."

As this is demonstrably true Corbyn refuses to delete, which of course puts him at odds with Starmer's position as quoted above.

This is worth a watch, it's from what Prestwich_Blue calls "the wrong type of Jew".....

Click to expand...

Cheers Fumble.
Rascal said:
I love you pal :))
Click to expand...
You're not so bad yerself mate x
 
stonerblue said:
I'm struggling with this labelling of Corbyn as anti semitic. Could you furnish me with the evidence?
Click to expand...
Perhaps that's because you have no idea what antisemitism is or even are comfortable with it?

Let's start with his comment that "British Zionists (ie Jews) have no sense of English irony". So that's effectively saying these Jews, even though they've lived here for generations, aren't really British. Isn't that the same as the Tory MP Michael Fabricant implied, when he talked about "Anglo-Muslim relations"? Did you think that statement was a problem?

Then there was his liking of a mural that had antisemitic images/tropes and questioning why it had to be removed. He couldn't see why it was antisemitic.

The Facebook page for the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which he was a member of and contained numerous antisemitic messages. Not once did he challenge any of this.

His support of and use of the word "friends" to describe Hamas & Hezbollah, which are patently antisemitic organisations.

His invitation to Sheikh Raed Salah, a noted antisemitic hate-preacher to tea at the House of Commons, after he'd described Salah as "an honoured citizen".

His hosting of a conference addressed by a Holocaust denier.

His support for the antisemitic priest, Stephen Sizer, who he suggested had been the targets of an Israeli smear.

His documented interference, against the party rules , in a number of cases involving his close supporters who were facing disciplinary proceedings for antisemitism.

You might be able to excuse one of these in isolation but this is just a selection of his acts and omissions.

If it looks like an antisemite and sounds like an antisemite, then the likelihood is that it is an antisemite.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Perhaps that's because you have no idea what antisemitism is or even are comfortable with it?

Let's start with his comment that "British Zionists (ie Jews) have no sense of English irony". So that's effectively saying these Jews, even though they've lived here for generations, aren't really British. Isn't that the same as the Tory MP Michael Fabricant implied, when he talked about "Anglo-Muslim relations"? Did you think that statement was a problem?

Then there was his liking of a mural that had antisemitic images/tropes and questioning why it had to be removed. He couldn't see why it was antisemitic.

The Facebook page for the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which he was a member of and contained numerous antisemitic messages. Not once did he challenge any of this.

His support of and use of the word "friends" to describe Hamas & Hezbollah, which are patently antisemitic organisations.

His invitation to Sheikh Raed Salah, a noted antisemitic hate-preacher to tea at the House of Commons, after he'd described Salah as "an honoured citizen".

His hosting of a conference addressed by a Holocaust denier.

His support for the antisemitic priest, Stephen Sizer, who he suggested had been the targets of an Israeli smear.

His documented interference, against the party rules , in a number of cases involving his close supporters who were facing disciplinary proceedings for antisemitism.

You might be able to excuse one of these in isolation but this is just a selection of his acts and omissions.

If it looks like an antisemite and sounds like an antisemite, then the likelihood is that it is an antisemite.
Click to expand...

End of thread
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Perhaps that's because you have no idea what antisemitism is or even are comfortable with it?

Let's start with his comment that "British Zionists (ie Jews) have no sense of English irony". So that's effectively saying these Jews, even though they've lived here for generations, aren't really British. Isn't that the same as the Tory MP Michael Fabricant implied, when he talked about "Anglo-Muslim relations"? Did you think that statement was a problem?

Then there was his liking of a mural that had antisemitic images/tropes and questioning why it had to be removed. He couldn't see why it was antisemitic.

The Facebook page for the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which he was a member of and contained numerous antisemitic messages. Not once did he challenge any of this.

His support of and use of the word "friends" to describe Hamas & Hezbollah, which are patently antisemitic organisations.

His invitation to Sheikh Raed Salah, a noted antisemitic hate-preacher to tea at the House of Commons, after he'd described Salah as "an honoured citizen".

His hosting of a conference addressed by a Holocaust denier.

His support for the antisemitic priest, Stephen Sizer, who he suggested had been the targets of an Israeli smear.

His documented interference, against the party rules , in a number of cases involving his close supporters who were facing disciplinary proceedings for antisemitism.

You might be able to excuse one of these in isolation but this is just a selection of his acts and omissions.

If it looks like an antisemite and sounds like an antisemite, then the likelihood is that it is an antisemite.
Click to expand...
You can get to fuck with your first sentence. Will read the rest shortly.
 
stonerblue said:
You can get to fuck with your first sentence.
Click to expand...
And anyone calling antisemitism white noise, a distraction, a smear, overstated/exaggerated or anything else that detracts or minimises the impact on the actual victims can similarly do likewise.

One thing this has shown is that people are resolutely anti-racist until the racist is their hero.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
And anyone calling antisemitism white noise, a distraction, a smear, overstated/exaggerated or anything else that detracts or minimises the impact on the actual victims can similarly do likewise.
Click to expand...
Fuck me PB, i asked a civilised question to you directly as i thought i'd get a bit more info from someone who knows about this shit. And like another poster this week you fly straight in and make a personal attack in me. I expected better from you.
Now, if you'd like to retract your claim that i could be 'personally comfortable with it (anti-semitism) perhaps we could discuss this like fucking grown ups.
 
stonerblue said:
Fuck me PB, i asked a civilised question to you directly as i thought i'd get a bit more info from someone who knows about this shit. And like another poster this week you fly straight in and make a personal attack in me. I expected better from you.
Now, if you'd like to retract your claim that i could be 'personally comfortable with it (anti-semitism) perhaps we could discuss this like fucking grown ups.
Click to expand...
I made it clear what I meant. Anyone prepared to overlook or minimise it because they don't want to criticise the person being anti-Semitic, I deem to be "comfortable" with it.

Only you know If you fit that description or not. I'm not claiming you definitely do.
 
stonerblue said:
Fuck me PB, i asked a civilised question to you directly as i thought i'd get a bit more info from someone who knows about this shit. And like another poster this week you fly straight in and make a personal attack in me. I expected better from you.
Now, if you'd like to retract your claim that i could be 'personally comfortable with it (anti-semitism) perhaps we could discuss this like fucking grown ups.
Click to expand...

You're wasting your time mate, he's a bully and a smear merchant, he's not calling you anti-Semitic, he's just putting it out there.

He's got nothing because there is nothing. Not too long ago he was content with merely suggesting Corbyn had created an "environment" within the Labour Party for anti-Semitism to flourish, but now he's on a roll and Corbyn is a "demonstrable antisemite".

He's not worth the steam off your piss
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
I made it clear what I meant. Anyone prepared to overlook or minimise it because they don't want to criticise the person being anti-Semitic, I deem to be "comfortable" with it.

Only you know If you fit that description or not. I'm not claiming you definitely do.
Click to expand...
Evidently yoou must have missed my hundreds of posts over the last 16 years on here where i've called out racism, and racist at every turn.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You're wasting your time mate, he's a bully and a smear merchant, he's not calling you anti-Semitic, he's just putting it out there.

He's got nothing because there is nothing. Not too long ago he was content with merely suggesting Corbyn had created an "environment" within the Labour Party for anti-Semitism to flourish, but now he's on a roll and Corbyn is a "demonstrable antisemite".

He's not worth the steam off your piss
Click to expand...

Damian McBride is watching this thread and taking notes. ;)
 
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