Keir Starmer

[Prestwich_Blue]

Genuinely admire the way you deftly side-stepped the David Collier thing and mobilise implications of victimhood / racism to support your view. There is literally no argument against that.

You make it like Collier was the only person who made accusations of antisemitism. He wasn't. The Labour MP's like Hodge, Berger, Mann, Smeeth, Ellman and others were all subject to abuse and attacks. You'll no doubt dismiss them as "Tories" or "Blairites". So were celebrities like Rachel Riley and Tracy-Ann Oberman, as well as the Chief Rabbi. Not to mention many ordinary Jewish members of the party as well as those in the party apparatus who tired to enforce thedisciplinary rules but were subject to interference and pressure from the Leader's office. The abuse was written about by many mainstream media outlets.

None of the little gang of Corbynist, cultist trolls has ever acknowledged that racism occurred in the party on Corbyn's watch, despite the outcome of the EHRC investigation ("the chair was biased" was the basis of one comment on here). Instead you put up completely unsubstantiated rumours from sites like Electronic Intifada and other very suspect sources about one person.

So tell me again about deflection.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You make it like Collier was the only person who made accusations of antisemitism. He wasn't. The Labour MP's like Hodge, Berger, Mann, Smeeth, Ellman and others were all subject to abuse and attacks. You'll no doubt dismiss them as "Tories" or "Blairites". So were celebrities like Rachel Riley and Tracy-Ann Oberman, as well as the Chief Rabbi. Not to mention many ordinary Jewish members of the party as well as those in the party apparatus who tired to enforce thedisciplinary rules but were subject to interference and pressure from the Leader's office. The abuse was written about by many mainstream media outlets.

None of the little gang of Corbynist, cultist trolls has ever acknowledged that racism occurred in the party on Corbyn's watch, despite the outcome of the EHRC investigation ("the chair was biased" was the basis of one comment on here). Instead you put up completely unsubstantiated rumours from sites like Electronic Intifada and other very suspect sources about one person.

So tell me again about deflection.

When did I do the bolded bit?

 

[mexico1970]

Glad we have moved onto other leaders talked to racists when discussing Corbyn. Seems an odd deflection to go down as Corbyn isn’t anti Semitic they say. Unfortunately he is so the argument really is - I wanted a Labour govt and now I want to keep a more left wing Labour Party than what Starmer will bring.

The morals you guys give up on a football forum. Trying to protect an anti Semite and his followers.

The cult of Corbyn isn't dying fast enough, and it left the electorate with little choice at the ballot box, it was either the kind caring Tories or a bunch of rabid activists with a shadow cabinet of momentum supporting clowns.

You can't argue a point with someone who refuses to see the facts in front of them, the "Anything is better than the Tories" position didn't serve them well in the last GE, and if they revert back to type they wont see power in my lifetime, giving the Tories a free run at every GE.

They need to split from the Labour party and form a hard line socialist party where they will enjoy polling figures similar to UKIP IMO.

 

[Fame Monster]

I think the environment Blair inhabited in 1994 was fairly different to that now. Not sure any Labour leader could unite the existing factions any time soon. Seems to be a pretty fragmented party at the moment.

The biggest mistake would be to think you have to unite the Labour Party in order to win an election. You don't. There's very few commies, Trots, and genuine socialists in this country and even if you expel them from the party in order to appeal more to the blue wall or Middle England, they're still likely to vote for you anyway.

Boris Johnson has just won a landslide after kicking out so many of his remainer MPs so the idea that unified parties win elections is nonsense.

Letting Corbyn back into Labour would be a fatal mistake by Starmer.

 

[The perfect fumble]

For fuck sake!

Leave the old fart to tend his allotment and potter round his constituency.

Here's reality, here's what anti-Semitism looks like and it ain't Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Rascal]

You say you're anti-racist. You say you're not antisemitic. Yet you (and a few others on here) support those who are, because it's expedient for your political beliefs. You show no empathy for the victims of racism - indeed, you mock those people - but plenty for the perpetrators. You seek to dismiss, minimise and trivialise the experience of the victims, as well as deflect.

Whatever David Collier is, that doesn't make any difference to the fact that a number of Labour party members were openly racist. One was sentenced this week. Nicholas Nelson, who was a member of the party at the time, was sentenced to 30 weeks in prison, suspended for 18 months. It doesn't change the fact that Corbyn associated with people who were antisemitic or made comments (the "British Zionists" one) that were antisemitic.

If you're genuinely anti-racist, you can't support racism or ignore and belittle the experience of the victims of racism. By doing that, you identify as the troll, not me.

It does make a difference, you support a Fascist who is antisemitic because it suits you. You do exactly what you accuse me and others of doing.

Not once have i said that there is no antisemitism in the Labour party, i have said it has been exaggerated and you have exaggerated it with a whole host of spurious claims based on the claims of an antisemitic fascist. If you cant see that you are being used it is not mine or another persons fault. They are using the likes of you to destroy the left in British politics because part of the left supports Palestine.

I feel sorry for you being the victim of people like Collier because i feel sorry for all victims of racism and he is the person who is making your life harder and belittling you because he is a fascist and he wants to destroy Palestine, just like you do and have supported with posts where you advocated burning down mosques.

You called Skashion an anti semite on more than one occasion on here in the past which lead to a whole number of people leaving the forum. One of them who left was a supporter of Palestine and his wife was a nurse in Palestine and witnessed some of the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people. I suggest then it is you who shows no empathy because you don't believe in the right of Palestine to exist and therefore ignore the attrocities committed by deflecting and saying Hamas are the ones to blame.

I have also never sought to minimise the effect of any sort of racism on anybody or any race of people, nor have i ever supported any form of racism. You though are mixing up the claims of a deranged antisemitic fascist with the truth, You have fallen for his propaganda and i thought you were brighter than that.

In my opinion this whole poisonous episode was created as a means to rid the country of the left and cement the right in power for eternity. The constant accusations and constant stream of propaganda emanating from LFI and the Board of Deputies, the Jewish Chronicle and parts of the Labour right wing machinery are all about one thing. They weaponised antisemitism as a means of smearing the left so they can control the party and ensure capitalism survives without threat.

Because it is funny how when the Labour party had a Jewish leader in Ed Miliband it wasn't a problem and now Keith is in place and is doing the Board of Deputies bidding at every turn.....miraculously the antisemitism accusations have disappeared.

 

[The perfect fumble]

We need a man who will say anything, do anything, to get elected....

 

[ganganvince]

We need a man who will say anything, do anything, to get elected....

Keir Starmer says he wants The S*n to endorse him and The Labour Party | Evolve Politics

Keir Starmer has risked the wrath of Labour members and supporters, especially in the party’s Merseyside heartlands, after indicating that he would welcome an endorsement from The S*n newspaper. Speaking with Channel Four News last night, the Labour leader said he was determined to “engage” with...

evolvepolitics.com

 

[The perfect fumble]

It does make a difference, you support a Fascist who is antisemitic because it suits you. You do exactly what you accuse me and others of doing.

Not once have i said that there is no antisemitism in the Labour party, i have said it has been exaggerated and you have exaggerated it with a whole host of spurious claims based on the claims of an antisemitic fascist. If you cant see that you are being used it is not mine or another persons fault. They are using the likes of you to destroy the left in British politics because part of the left supports Palestine.

I feel sorry for you being the victim of people like Collier because i feel sorry for all victims of racism and he is the person who is making your life harder and belittling you because he is a fascist and he wants to destroy Palestine, just like you do and have supported with posts where you advocated burning down mosques.

You called Skashion an anti semite on more than one occasion on here in the past which lead to a whole number of people leaving the forum. One of them who left was a supporter of Palestine and his wife was a nurse in Palestine and witnessed some of the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people. I suggest then it is you who shows no empathy because you don't believe in the right of Palestine to exist and therefore ignore the attrocities committed by deflecting and saying Hamas are the ones to blame.

I have also never sought to minimise the effect of any sort of racism on anybody or any race of people, nor have i ever supported any form of racism. You though are mixing up the claims of a deranged antisemitic fascist with the truth, You have fallen for his propaganda and i thought you were brighter than that.

In my opinion this whole poisonous episode was created as a means to rid the country of the left and cement the right in power for eternity. The constant accusations and constant stream of propaganda emanating from LFI and the Board of Deputies, the Jewish Chronicle and parts of the Labour right wing machinery are all about one thing. They weaponised antisemitism as a means of smearing the left so they can control the party and ensure capitalism survives without threat.

Because it is funny how when the Labour party had a Jewish leader in Ed Miliband it wasn't a problem and now Keith is in place and is doing the Board of Deputies bidding at every turn.....miraculously the antisemitism accusations have disappeared.

PB's making a movie about this rampant anti-Semitism, it's called "A Fistful of Tweets"

 

[The perfect fumble]

Keir Starmer says he wants The S*n to endorse him and The Labour Party | Evolve Politics

Keir Starmer has risked the wrath of Labour members and supporters, especially in the party’s Merseyside heartlands, after indicating that he would welcome an endorsement from The S*n newspaper. Speaking with Channel Four News last night, the Labour leader said he was determined to “engage” with...

evolvepolitics.com

It's always the quiet ones.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

PB's making a movie about this rampant anti-Semitism, it's called "A Fistful of Tweets"

And I'm trying to persuade Arséne "I didn't see it" Wenger to play you.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

PB's making a movie about this rampant anti-Semitism, it's called "A Fistful of Tweets"

Leaked footage.

 

[Rascal]

The Labour MP's like Hodge,

Who submitted 200 claims out of 1,100 herself.

Those 200 claims involved 111 people

of those 111 people ,...........91 were not even Labour Party members.

You are at again.

Nobody is saying it didnt exist, i am saying it was exaggerated and if you look at the likes of Hodge and her claims you can see why they were exaggerated.

Those MPs on the right of the party weaponised antisemitism and Hodge is proof of it. She took a small problem that needed sorting out and eradicating from the Labour Party and turned it into a massive scandal that has not only shamefully meant Jewish people like yourself have been worried by the scale of antisemitism but also shamefully smeared thousands of decent Labour members are as racists.

 

[Rascal]

You make it like Collier was the only person who made accusations of antisemitism. He wasn't. The Labour MP's like Hodge, Berger, Mann, Smeeth, Ellman and others were all subject to abuse and attacks. You'll no doubt dismiss them as "Tories" or "Blairites". So were celebrities like Rachel Riley and Tracy-Ann Oberman, as well as the Chief Rabbi. Not to mention many ordinary Jewish members of the party as well as those in the party apparatus who tired to enforce thedisciplinary rules but were subject to interference and pressure from the Leader's office. The abuse was written about by many mainstream media outlets.

None of the little gang of Corbynist, cultist trolls has ever acknowledged that racism occurred in the party on Corbyn's watch, despite the outcome of the EHRC investigation ("the chair was biased" was the basis of one comment on here). Instead you put up completely unsubstantiated rumours from sites like Electronic Intifada and other very suspect sources about one person.

So tell me again about deflection.

Let me tell you about deflection again.

David Rosenberg who no doubt you will say is the wrong sort of Jew like you have done previously wrote of those 1100 claims.

"approximately 1,100 complaints were lodged between April 2018 and January 2019, but 433 (nearly 40 per cent) were found to relate to non-Labour Party members, which brought it down to 673. (That still leaves a problem in wider society though.)

Of those complaints there was no evidence of a case to answer in 220 of those complaints, and we can speculate that those accusations were either wildly exaggerated or vexatious.

That still leaves more than 400 members (out of approximately 550,000 — so around 0.07 per cent) who had expressed views concerning Jews that were judged as requiring further investigation and disciplinary action.

Some received suspensions, others formal/written warnings about their behaviour, while just 12 were expelled."


Because the likes of Hodge exaggerated it and weaponised antisemitism to stop the left of the party. I dont see you attach any blame to her for making you and your fellow Jews suffer months of heartache through her lies. No you pick on the anti rascists rather than the people who have used your race against you for political gain.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Who submitted 200 claims out of 1,100 herself.

Those 200 claims involved 111 people

of those 111 people ,...........91 were not even Labour Party members.

You are at again.

Nobody is saying it didnt exist, i am saying it was exaggerated and if you look at the likes of Hodge and her claims you can see why they were exaggerated.

Those MPs on the right of the party weaponised antisemitism and Hodge is proof of it. She took a small problem that needed sorting out and eradicating from the Labour Party and turned it into a massive scandal that has not only shamefully meant Jewish people like yourself have been worried by the scale of antisemitism but also shamefully smeared thousands of decent Labour members are as racists.

We're going round in circles. Yet again you're painting the victims as the perpetrators. It's like you're saying yes, there was antisemitism but those whingeing Jews brought it on themselves by complaining too much about it because doing that made it worse.

The Labour Party is supposed to be a democratic socialist party which is globalist in outlook, standing for fairness and equality, and standing against discrimination & racism.

The far-right is honest and open about hating Jews while the left hides behind code words, hatred of Israel and, as we've seen constantly just on here, deflection and minimisation of the problem. At least, with a fascist, I know where I stand.

 

[Rascal]

We're going round in circles. Yet again you're painting the victims as the perpetrators. It's like you're saying yes, there was antisemitism but those whingeing Jews brought it on themselves by complaining too much about it because doing that made it worse.

The Labour Party is supposed to be a democratic socialist party which is globalist in outlook, standing for fairness and equality, and standing against discrimination & racism.

The far-right is honest and open about hating Jews while the left hides behind code words, hatred of Israel and, as we've seen constantly just on here, deflection and minimisation of the problem. At least, with a fascist, I know where I stand.

I am saying nothing of the sort and you know it. I have not even mentioned Jews at all apart from saying i am against antisemitism. So stop using that nonsense.

The Labour Party is supposed to be a Democratic Socialist party, and the likes of Hodge didnt want that so used your faith and heritage against you to stop it. If you dont find that despicable i really dont know what else to say. I have given you the figures that back up what i have said and indeed what Corbyn said....the scale of it was exaggerated by the likes of Hodge and you would rather take the side of a known fascist like Collier.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I am saying nothing of the sort and you know it. I have not even mentioned Jews at all apart from saying i am against antisemitism. So stop using that nonsense.

The Labour Party is supposed to be a Democratic Socialist party, and the likes of Hodge didnt want that so used your faith and heritage against you to stop it. If you dont find that despicable i really dont know what else to say. I have given you the figures that back up what i have said and indeed what Corbyn said....the scale of it was exaggerated by the likes of Hodge and you would rather take the side of a known fascist like Collier.

Like I said, fascists are at least honest about their hatreds. As opposed to leftist racists who smugly self-identify as anti-racist.

 

[Rascal]

the left hides behind code words, hatred of Israel

I don't hate Israel, i have said that to you, i doubt many on the left hate Israel, but you are confusing support for Palestine with hatred for Israel, it is quite possible to support both.

What the likes of Collier do though with his rabid anti Palestinian stance is make out everyone who supports Palestine hates Israel. Collier is a known agitator who has disrupted pro-Palestine meetings and do you know it is quite possible to be Pro Palestine and not a Labour party member as well. But he categorises everyone as the same. Like Hodge his politics is the politics of smear and the only people him and Hodge are hurting and i repeat is the likes of you.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Like I said, fascists are at least honest about their hatreds. As opposed to leftist racists who smugly self-identify as anti-racist.

The exaggeration of a problem to cause fear is a trusted mechanism of control used in sectarian conflicts the world over. Historically perhaps against Jews more than others, but the same mechanism was used in NI sectarianism, and by Al Qaeda in Iraq. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Rascal]

Like I said, fascists are at least honest about their hatreds. As opposed to leftist racists who smugly self-identify as anti-racist.

You are just being snide now because the facts do not suit the narrative you bought into.

Like i said to you before, if you thought i was a racist/antisemite why did you ever speak to me.