Keir Starmer

When you say you are a political centrist who wants to look after the unfortunate whilst allowing business to flourish you fit neatly into the category of a One Nation Tory, a One Nation Tory is comfortable with free markets and is socially liberal in outlook and has a social conscience. Ken Clarke would probably be similar in outlook to you. The Tories in power now are free market extremists and culturally Conservative. The Tories just like Labour are a broad church of political opinion and at the moment the One Nation Tories (centrists) are on the fringes of what is now a populist movement hell bent on ideological minimalisation of the state because it believes that the free market answers all questions. That is the legacy of Keith Joseph the ideological driver of what we now call Thatcherism.

Those people, Thatcher included were rabid Pro EU, her legacy was the single market, the very single market many on the soft left, centrists and hard right of the Tory party now oppose. The Labour left in Bennite tradition were always anti EU, the Labour manifesto of 1983 included leaving the EU because the left saw it as a Neo-Liberal construct in hock with the Capitalists. The Labour Left also saw the EU as anti democratic and because the left are the real patriots in the UK (without the flag waving) it saw that the UK was being denied influence and self determination.

To put it simply, you can not be of the left and support the EU, so blaming the left for Brexit shows an ignorance of what the left has always been about. The soft left centrist Blairite part of the Labour party was always Pro EU and to fair to Blair he made a great case for membership and got many people onside with the Social Chapter which set minimal standards for workers rights which I applauded and I hoped the EU would become a fully federal state which at some point in the future could become a Socialist EU, but that is not going to happen because the owners of Capital run the EU, so we are better off out.

As for the Lying narcissist his idiocy and failure to be across his brief is the main reason Brexit is going wrong, blame him for it, it is his stupidity and overarching confidence in his own ability that has sold this country short, not the Labour party, although the Labour party and Starmer in particular with his flip flopping on brexit helped the lying cunts cause and split the Labour party asunder.

The sad thing is for me is that i saw a Labour party that echoed my views almost, but what was traduced daily and smeared hourly for all manner of ills yet had the best manifesto since 1982. It was not only attacked by the rabid fuckwits in the lunatic RW media but members and MPs in our own party. Socialism is a dirty word, its dirty because the owners of capital fear Socialism and they fund all manner of think tanks and media to persuade people that Socialism means the UK will be like North Korea, the ironic thing is that Priti Vacant wants us to be like North Korea.

For me, I believe Socialism is about dignity, it is about giving everyone dignity, from being able to work and feed your family to making sure those worse off can survive with dignity, its about making sure if you need to see a Doctor you can, if you want to borrow a book from a library you can, if you want decent police on the streets there are enough of them, if you need an ambulance you get one straight away, the schools our kids go to give them a decent education and a good start in life, industries that are natural monopolies should be publically owned so they can work for all not for profit for the few. We should have strong armed forces and equip them properly, we should have a world class infrastructure not a load of failing train companies given money to hand to their shareholders, we should pay a decent days wage for a decent days work but also tax those who get rich of the work others accordingly and make large corporations pay proper tax.

Nobody should be homeless, nobody should be hungry, nobody should be waiting 18 months for a referral to get help for mental health problems. We should be a country that acknowledges our imperial past and does its duty to those who need refuge from despots.

This country has become increasingly right wing fuelled by the media and Tufton Street mafia, but I do not believe this country is a right wing as the like of that horrible **** Farage make out, Patriotism does not belong to the flag waving loons on the far right it belongs to us all, because i can love my country and want a different path to what the self proclaimed patriots want and i do not believe we are that different. We want what is best for our country but see it differently that is all, but the RW are imbued with this culture war nonsense and that is damaging, its dividing us on issues that really have no consequence.

Yes I am a Socialist (spit everyone) but I am not a Socialist because I believe in trans rights or BLM or any other bogeyman cause the RW media attach to me, I am a Socialist because I want to make my life better and more importantly I want to make each and every person on the planets life better.

I wish Keir would see that instead of ostracising the likes of me.
Beautifully put
 
The opposition cant do anything, they are not in power.

Do people really not know how our democracy works.

And yes, starving kids is the behaviour of scum and it needs saying every day this government stays in power.
How much do you think it costs to feed a child with 3 nutritious meals each day?
 
And the piss poor Blair tribute act continues.

I absolutely get the sentiment on Merseyside and on here and I despise Murdoch and his empire. I am also not really a Starmer fan BUT if Labour are to reach the parts they need to then they need to write an article in the Sun to see what response that generates to gauge what they have to do - its one of those hold your nose and do it situations. If Starmer doesn't his successor would probably have to.
 
do you want to win, and have some of what you want enacted, or lose, and have 5 more years of everything you don't want enacted.

Appears most people just want to be indignant and have something to complain about rather than be pragmatic, logical and take responsibility for doing stuff.
 
I absolutely get the sentiment on Merseyside and on here and I despise Murdoch and his empire. I am also not really a Starmer fan BUT if Labour are to reach the parts they need to then they need to write an article in the Sun to see what response that generates to gauge what they have to do - its one of those hold your nose and do it situations. If Starmer doesn't his successor would probably have to.

Big echoes of 1994 watching the Labour doc that was on last night. Starmer isn’t Blair though and I don’t think can take enough of his own party along the ride.
 
I absolutely get the sentiment on Merseyside and on here and I despise Murdoch and his empire. I am also not really a Starmer fan BUT if Labour are to reach the parts they need to then they need to write an article in the Sun to see what response that generates to gauge what they have to do - its one of those hold your nose and do it situations. If Starmer doesn't his successor would probably have to.
Yes, irrespective of the disdain with which The Sun is held in Merseyside it is still the most widely read of the printed media amongst much of Labour’s target electorate. Anyone who wants rid of the Tories should welcome Starmer reaching out to as wide a range of voters as possible even if it is via media that is reviled in one area of the country.
 
I'll preface this by saying I am far from a political expert. I will also note that Keir Starmer isn't everyone's cup of tea, however...

Given the report on the pandemic has just come out (& cases are back up to 40,000 a day), the continuing fuel issues, the upcoming COP26 thing, the Northern Ireland issues and that the country is basically an utter mess plus the fact Boris has fucked off on his jollies, why am I am not seeing or hearing Keir Starmer on every news channel/radio station/newspaper front page in the country, firstly drilling this home to the everyone but secondly coming out with what we should be doing, proposing what Labour would introduce, surely now is the perfect time to make yourself look like a leader, someone the country would want to try and sort everything?

(I'm not saying he's capable of doing that but given the utter shit show we have in charge it cant be that difficult to make yourself look like a viable alternative option?)

Why cant he & Labour step up it & show there serious about wanting to win the next election?
 
Yes, irrespective of the disdain with which The Sun is held in Merseyside it is still the most widely read of the printed media amongst much of Labour’s target electorate. Anyone who wants rid of the Tories should welcome Starmer reaching out to as wide a range of voters as possible even if it is via media that is reviled in one area of the country.


Agreed, but it was somewhat dishonest to make the claim he wouldn't speak to the Sun during the Leadership election when he knew people would infer that he meant that to be more wider than the leadership election.

I knew that he only meant during the leadership election when I heard it at the time, but I also knew people would misinterpret it. It was quite a cynical thing to do, he would have won regardless without the announcement of boycotting the Sun.
 
I'll preface this by saying I am far from a political expert. I will also note that Keir Starmer isn't everyone's cup of tea, however...

Given the report on the pandemic has just come out (& cases are back up to 40,000 a day), the continuing fuel issues, the upcoming COP26 thing, the Northern Ireland issues and that the country is basically an utter mess plus the fact Boris has fucked off on his jollies, why am I am not seeing or hearing Keir Starmer on every news channel/radio station/newspaper front page in the country, firstly drilling this home to the everyone but secondly coming out with what we should be doing, proposing what Labour would introduce, surely now is the perfect time to make yourself look like a leader, someone the country would want to try and sort everything?

(I'm not saying he's capable of doing that but given the utter shit show we have in charge it cant be that difficult to make yourself look like a viable alternative option?)

Why cant he & Labour step up it & show there serious about wanting to win the next election?
That would mean admitting his predecessor was right in his stance on lack of government activity at the time.

Sir Keir wouldn't want Corbyn to look good. He's rather sit on the fence and do fuck all. Maybe send Ashworth out to comment on two news shows and that's it.
 
I'll preface this by saying I am far from a political expert. I will also note that Keir Starmer isn't everyone's cup of tea, however...

Given the report on the pandemic has just come out (& cases are back up to 40,000 a day), the continuing fuel issues, the upcoming COP26 thing, the Northern Ireland issues and that the country is basically an utter mess plus the fact Boris has fucked off on his jollies, why am I am not seeing or hearing Keir Starmer on every news channel/radio station/newspaper front page in the country, firstly drilling this home to the everyone but secondly coming out with what we should be doing, proposing what Labour would introduce, surely now is the perfect time to make yourself look like a leader, someone the country would want to try and sort everything?

(I'm not saying he's capable of doing that but given the utter shit show we have in charge it cant be that difficult to make yourself look like a viable alternative option?)

Why cant he & Labour step up it & show there serious about wanting to win the next election?

Partly they would need a reason to be shown. There are only a limited number of places where they would be interviewed, Parliament is in recess for conferences and there is no announcement being made to draw the media to them.

Partly (and this is opinion without facts to base it on), going and complaining will justify being asked "what are you suggesting" (the govt ministers do get asked to justify things but refuse to answer with anything meaningful/true). I think there is still need to be done to firm up the Labour alternative - something which will stand up and that doesn't give the rottweilers something to howl about and avoid talking about the current problems. The trouble is that almost every solution is going to cost a fair chunk of money, and that probably means more tax in some form or other.

It seems that the aim is to let the govt fail to answer things and hope it seeps into public consciousness.
 
To be fair Keith was highly visible yesterday .... literally stealing Johnson's clothes. If he'd edged to left a bit he may not have failed.

 

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