Keir Starmer

Chippy_boy said:
Probably because I was so wrapped up in leaving being - as I thought at the time - bonkers. My passion was clouding my judgement.

Incidentally I no longer think it was, nor is, bonkers. I had feared the upheaval of getting out would overshadow the considerable benefits for too long for it to make sense. I thought the EU would punish us and refuse any trade agreement without unacceptable strings attached. None of this holds true. Brexit is "done" and the world kept spinning.

We've done the hard yards. We can rid ourselves of terrible EU laws and "take back control". To go back in now would be as stupid as it is undemocratic. Can you honestly imagine the public being in favour of freedom of movement and open borders in the current climate? It's unthinkable.
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Are you a bot? Cos that is fucking bonkers. Every expert in the land agrees Brexit has been a disaster, its cost us about £1trillion in GDP, stopped investment from coming in, made it harder to travel and work abroad, caused huge shortages in the nhs etc all for what. What exactly did we take control back of? Fuck all that’s what. We had our own currency, our own vetos, the amount of times we had to take a rule was miniscule.

Anyway the Brexit vote was not a forever vote nor was the one when we joined.
If Starmer calls a second vote you will have to suck it up.
 
metalblue said:
Her plan wasn’t to become the next PM but rather let the NEC know she was challenging. This would force out the real runners and riders, Streeting, Rayner etc.

The problem is the one everyone in the PLP can seemingly get behind can’t even make the ballot paper.

First she is going to fire the starting gun then someone got in her ear about it being too soon and an hour later she did a u turn. It is clear the PLP want Starmer gone because they do not believe he is the right person to lead, yet now want to fuck around playing silly buggers leaving him in charge until they can find the promised one a seat. As the expression goes, shit or get off the potty.

So now we wait for the new ultimatum of September, then a couple of months of voting a new leader in, so end of this year. All the while this pantomime plays out folk are loosing their jobs and struggling to make ends meet.

What a fucking shambles these adults in charge are.
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But a million percent better than the lettuce, Farage the traitor, Boris the Russian KGB asset etc etc
 
Norbert D said:
Are you a bot? Cos that is fucking bonkers. Every expert in the land agrees Brexit has been a disaster, its cost us about £1trillion in GDP, stopped investment from coming in, made it harder to travel and work abroad, caused huge shortages in the nhs etc all for what. What exactly did we take control back of? Fuck all that’s what. We had our own currency, our own vetos, the amount of times we had to take a rule was miniscule.

Anyway the Brexit vote was not a forever vote nor was the one when we joined.
If Starmer calls a second vote you will have to suck it up.
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Starmer wont be calling any referendum he'll be lucky to last long enough to get his coat on, if last weeks council elections are anything to go by any sitting government wont chance a referendum and that's even if the EU decided to allow us back in.
 
expatblue said:
Starmer wont be calling any referendum he'll be lucky to last long enough to get his coat on, if last weeks council elections are anything to go by any sitting government wont chance a referendum and that's even if the EU decided to allow us back in.
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The only people who wanted us out of the EU were opportunists, Putin and morons.
Now the Orange bastard has thrown us under the bus we have no choice but to get closer with our neighbours. Farage is a Putin asset.
 
Norbert D said:
Are you a bot? Cos that is fucking bonkers. Every expert in the land agrees Brexit has been a disaster, its cost us about £1trillion in GDP, stopped investment from coming in, made it harder to travel and work abroad, caused huge shortages in the nhs etc all for what. What exactly did we take control back of? Fuck all that’s what. We had our own currency, our own vetos, the amount of times we had to take a rule was miniscule.

Anyway the Brexit vote was not a forever vote nor was the one when we joined.
If Starmer calls a second vote you will have to suck it up.
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No, I'm neither. And I don't know where you get your £1 Tn nonsense from either because unless I am missing something, we don't have a parallel universe in which we did not leave, to compare with.

Funny how with even the shittest possible governments since Brexit we've managed to have faster growth rates than the major EU economies. But actually it's not funny, it's entirely to be expected. Why? Because Germany is fucked, France is fucked and dying slow death, Italy is fucked. The whole EU socialist experiment has demonstrably failed. And will only go further downhill.

Wanting to tie yourself to that lot? Well that is bonkers. Not to mention the unavoidable baggage of billions in required "fees" and acceptance that any Tom, Dick or Harry out of 500m can come and live, work, stay here, forever, without restriction.

Any you think all that was a GOOD thing because it made it a bit easier at the airport? Bizarre.
 
Norbert D said:
Are you a bot? Cos that is fucking bonkers. Every expert in the land agrees Brexit has been a disaster, its cost us about £1trillion in GDP, stopped investment from coming in, made it harder to travel and work abroad, caused huge shortages in the nhs etc all for what. What exactly did we take control back of? Fuck all that’s what. We had our own currency, our own vetos, the amount of times we had to take a rule was miniscule.

Anyway the Brexit vote was not a forever vote nor was the one when we joined.
If Starmer calls a second vote you will have to suck it up.
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I’ve not listened to the whole speech but it would be great if he is leaning towards another referendum.

You’re replying to a person who thought Truss was doing a good job…
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, I'm neither. And I don't know where you get your £1 Tn nonsense from either because unless I am missing something, we don't have a parallel universe in which we did not leave, to compare with.

Funny how with even the shittest possible governments since Brexit we've managed to have faster growth rates than the major EU economies. But actually it's not funny, it's entirely to be expected. Why? Because Germany is fucked, France is fucked and dying slow death, Italy is fucked. The whole EU socialisr experiment has demonstrably failed. And will only go further downhill.

Wanting to tie yourself to that lot? Well that is bonkers. Not to mention the unavoidable baggage of billions in required "fees" and acceptance that any Tom, Dick or Harry out of 500m can come and live, work, stay here, forever, without restriction.

Any you think all that was a GOOD thing because it made it a bit easier at the airport? Bizarre.
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And you claim to have initially voted Remain? What a joke. So you think Farage the Russian traitor can build us a new empire to fight off our foes? Keep drinking the Kool Aid.
 
expatblue said:
Starmer wont be calling any referendum he'll be lucky to last long enough to get his coat on, if last weeks council elections are anything to go by any sitting government wont chance a referendum and that's even if the EU decided to allow us back in.
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You’re right Starmer and most likely this government won’t have a referendum partly because it wasn’t in the manifesto partly because they aren’t brave enough and would rather edge us back towards the EU by stealth, and that’s fine.
However last weeks elections tell us nothing about whether rejoin would win if they did have a referendum,reform got 27% in England, and 15% in Scotland ,and current polling says the UK would probably vote to rejoin,and though not with the favourable conditions we had before, but the EU would let us back in.
 
Norbert D said:
And you claim to have initially voted Remain? What a joke. So you think Farage the Russian traitor can build us a new empire to fight off our foes? Keep drinking the Kool Aid.
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And you think Russia will invade the UK instead of say Finland, which just happens to be next door with a thousand miles of shared border? Or an incoming nuclear strike on the UK from China?

Ok you've convinced me. It's Labour for me. I surrender to the power of your argument.
 
Chippy_boy said:
And you think Russia will invade the UK instead of say Finland, which just happens to be next door with a thousand miles of shared border? Or an incoming nuclear strike on the UK from China?

Ok you've convinced me. It's Labour for me. I surrender to the power of your argument.
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Finland are in NATO and we would be obligated to help them. But I guess getting Farage in power would be a great way for putin to negate that.
 
blueparrot said:
You’re right Starmer and most likely this government won’t have a referendum partly because it wasn’t in the manifesto partly because they aren’t brave enough and would rather edge us back towards the EU by stealth, and that’s fine.
However last weeks elections tell us nothing about whether rejoin would win if they did have a referendum,reform got 27% in England, and 15% in Scotland ,and current polling says the UK would probably vote to rejoin,and though not with the favourable conditions we had before, but the EU would let us back in.
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If we have learned anything it's don't trust the polls, it would be interesting to see a party just come out and offer a referendum and see how they do in the GE after that. Too many people thinking wishful thinking are facts in this instance.

Both major parties are dead in the water now, they've been finally found out.
 
It seems eminently sensible to me to have strong trading and defence arrangements with near neighbours, especially in a volatile environment where traditional allies seem untrustworthy.
I voted remain and now shake my head at the devastating economic and social impact caused by leaving the EU. It is hard for me to grasp that one of the main engineers of such despair is now trusted by many to deliver positive change, but trusting the charlatan because he diverts the blame to others is nothing new.
 
expatblue said:
If we have learned anything it's don't trust the polls, it would be interesting to see a party just come out and offer a referendum and see how they do in the GE after that. Too many people thinking wishful thinking are facts in this instance.

Both major parties are dead in the water now, they've been finally found out.
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The polls aren’t perfect that’s fair, but ignoring them and basing an opinion on your own thoughts seems to be the wishful thinking part.,
 
expatblue said:
If we have learned anything it's don't trust the polls, it would be interesting to see a party just come out and offer a referendum and see how they do in the GE after that. Too many people thinking wishful thinking are facts in this instance.

Both major parties are dead in the water now, they've been finally found out.
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I am not certain that this is true, but it will require big shifts in delivery and an honest press, and we are a long way away from that.
 
Scottyboi said:
Finland are in NATO and we would be obligated to help them. But I guess getting Farage in power would be a great way for putin to negate that.
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I thought we were in NATO? I must have missed something.

And I find it highly amusing talk of Boris the KGB agent, Farage the Russian sympathiser whilst conveniently forgetting we have a former Trotskyist PM.
 
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