Ken Livingston

[Prestwich_Blue]

Statement on “Labour’s problem with antisemitism” from the Jewish Socialists’ Group

Antisemitism exists and must be exposed and fought against in the same way as other forms of racism by all who are concerned with combating racism and fascism. Antisemitism and anti-Zionism are not the same. Zionism is a political ideology which has always been contested within Jewish life since it emerged in 1897, and it is entirely legitimate for non-Jews as well as Jews to express opinions about it, whether positive or negative. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Jews. Criticism of Israeli government policy and Israeli state actions against the Palestinians is not antisemitism. Those who conflate criticism of Israeli policy with antisemitism, whether they are supporters or opponents of Israeli policy, are actually helping the antisemites.

Far right elitist blowhard Guido Fawkes (Paul Staines) is a self-confessed Zionist, essentially backing Israel's Netanyahu apartheid regime who attack Gaza disproportionately killing children, are silent when IDF soldiers execute defenceless Palestinians and systematically erasing their land.

I've highlighted a couple of small pieces from two posts to make what I think is a key point about something not well understood. The JSG statement is excellent and sums up most of the issues superbly but there's one thing I'd take issue with, which the bit of KTL's post I've quoted highlights. The JSG statement talks about "anti-Zionism" which I'd contend is a meaningless term. The extract from Ken's post equates being a Zionist with the worst excesses of the Israeli government (although I know Ken has a wider view than that).

Zionism is essentially a political movement that has many shades, more so than most political movements. At its core is the belief that there should be a Jewish homeland in Israel. Therefore at its most basic, anti-Zionism is the denial of that and the belief that there shouldn't be such a thing. However there have always been many shades of Zionism, ranging across the political and religious spectrum. The original Zionists were largely socialist, non-religious Jews and they were largely shunned by more traditional, religious Jews. Having achieved their dream of an Israeli state, there are many different views on what it should be like. The left wing, secular Zionists want an inclusive state where all can live in peace and security, whether Jew, Muslim, Arab, European etc. The secular right wing, represented by people like Netanyahu believe in the use of force and confrontation instead of conciliation. He's backed by the religious right, who are probably the most dangerous as they have an unshakeable belief, as expressed in the Old Testament, that Israel was given to them by God and the most extreme believe that they were promised land outside the pre-1967 borders. These people are extremists and some are deeply racist. An extremist is an extremist, whatever their religion and this seems to be what people equate with Zionism, as per the extract from Ken's post. But it's no more representative of it than ISIS are of Islam.

So as the JSG say, it's quite OK to criticise the policies of the Israeli government. That is not in itself anti-semitic and is probably what some call anti-Zionist. But there's equally no doubt that people use the term "anti-Zionist" as a cloak for blatant anti-semitism.

 

[BimboBob]

Livingston being a mouthy **** shock.

 

[steviemc]

Out of interest, has anyone watched the clip of the MP chasing him around just yelling "you're a Nazi sympathiser" at him repeatedly? I'd probably chin someone if they did that to me, how on earth is that considered acceptable behaviour? Obviously Ken Livingston is an absolute prat and needs kicking out but that other MP wouldn't be far behind him if I was in charge. Utterly unprofessional and looked very much like a publicity stunt, making sure the cameras were there to show him call him out. Fuck the party, I want my 5 minutes of fame. Drown them both I reckon

Very true. These people are supposed to be 'professional'. Fuck me, there are ways and means of putting your point across, and the was at best embarrassing, and at worst P45 material.

 

[George Hannah]

It doesn't matter a jot if Ken loses the whip, he wields the one that matters - Jezzer is just the hard left stooge.

 

[steviemc]

Perhaps you could tell us why you've posted that bullshit.

That pic looks far too much like Mr Burns from the Simpsons for anyone to give it an ounce of credence.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Sadly the more extreme Zionists tend to cry antisemitism whenever Israeli foreign policy is criticised or questioned in an attempt to stifle any debate. I actually doubt Ken Livingston is a racist, but he has played into the hands of the enemies of the left within the press, pretty much as Galloway has done in his attempts to support Palestine. It is true that at one point Hitler was seemingly supportive of the Zionist cause, but even in those early days it was because it was a convenient way to get Jews to bugger off out of Germany. Political careers have many twists and turns and frankly if Blair can be the middle east peace envoy, then Hitler by the same logic may as well be a rabbi!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Sadly the more extreme Zionists tend to cry antisemitism whenever Israeli foreign policy is criticised or questioned in an attempt to stifle any debate. I actually doubt Ken Livingston is a racist, but he has played into the hands of the enemies of the left within the press, pretty much as Galloway has done in his attempts to support Palestine. It is true that at one point Hitler was seemingly supportive of the Zionist cause, but even in those early days it was because it was a convenient way to get Jews to bugger off out of Germany. Political careers have many twists and turns and frankly if Blair can be the middle east peace envoy, then Hitler by the same logic may as well be a rabbi!

I'm not sure I'd go as far as your last statement but you're mostly right with the rest of it. In fact there's a school of thought that the British cabinet supported the Balfour Declaration in 1917 for nuch the same reason - the hope that the Jews in Britain might bugger off. It was only a few years earlier (in 1905) that an Aliens Act was passed that sought to stop the flow of Jews escaping persecution in Eastern Europe coming to Britain. The more things change...

 

[Bluebee2]

But what about Ken Livingstone?

He's done nothing wrong just stating some historical facts.

 

[Blue Til Death]

He's done nothing wrong just stating some historical facts.

So its an historical fact that Hitler was a Zionist is it???

 

[Bluebee2]

So its an historical fact that Hitler was a Zionist is it???

No, it's an historical fact that he had a signed agreement with the German Zionist federation to assist Jews to relocate to Palestine in 1933 though