Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[Shaelumstash]

Although I understand your point I would much rather try to poulish an incredibly gifted footballer (De Bruyne) into fitting into the team than replace him by a mediocre player (Navas) who just happens to fit the structure and who you know will never provide more than 4 goals and 5 assists a season. You would have to admit, Karen, that those kind of numbers for an attacking players are just nog good enough?

Anyway, I think it's way too early to give up on De Bruyne the way some seem to be doing, definitely if you consider he already has double numbers for goals and assists in spite of apparently playing like an arse to some people's (well entitled) opinion.

Just to clarify mate, in case you've somehow misunderstood - no one is saying Navas is a better footballer than De Bruyne. If it was a game of one on one (We call it Wembley Singles) De Bruyne would beat him 10-0.

But football isn't necessarily about the best individuals, it's about the best team.

There are isolated examples such as Mexico 86 where the best player wins and beats the best team. But in the main, I would say 99% of the time, the ones who win the trophies are the ones with the best functioning team.

I'm not sure if you saw our first 5 games this season before De Bruyne signed, but the team was functioning at an incredibly high level. We won 5 games on the trot, and didn't concede a goal. In contrast, we haven't won 2 games on the trot since October, and De Bruyne has been an ever present.

It would be unfair to pin all of the blame on De Bruyne for this, there are clearly other factors at play, injuries and other players out of form. However, the evidence in terms of performances is pretty stark. The team's performances, results, and certainly defensive solidity is incomparably better without De Bruyne in the team.

I'm no fan of Navas, I think he's an incredibly limited footballer, but he gives us balance. He works hard, he rarely gives the ball away, he stays wide, his pace makes opposition defenders think twice. Playing Sterling on the other side doing a similar job, means there is a hug amount of space for Silva. Defences are stretched right across the pitch, and that is when Aguero and Sterling can make dangerous runs in behind, and Silva can pick them out.

Under Pep, he may well mould KDB in to a brilliant wide player who can do that role even better than Navas, but Pellegrini doesn't seem to be working on that, he trusts him to play his natural game. Unfortunately his natural game doesn't seem to suit the rest of the team at the moment.

I'm glad we've got De Bruyne, he's an incredible talent and I'm sure he'll develop in to one of the best players in the world. But I'm more concerned about City's present than I am about De Bruyne's future. In my opinion, the best thing for City's present is to go back to what we know works, win games, get some momentum and win this league. The most tried and trusted team, the one which works best and gets the best results is the one that played the first 5 games of the season, and De Bruyne isn't in it.

 

[kenzie115]

At home, I see no reason not to play both Silva and De Bruyne, either Silva wide and De Bruyne right supporting two strikers (against weaker sides) or Silva as the 10 and De Bruyne wide. However, away from home, when teams are more likely to have a go at us, we look much more balanced with Sterling and Navas wide, which means there’s only space for one of Silva and De Bruyne to play behind the striker. Depending one who we’re playing and how we want to set up, you choose the appropriate player. If we’re going to sit deep and look to break, then we want quick transitions and De Bruyne is the obvious choice. If we think we’ll still dominate possession, then Silva is the better fit.

Rotating them for away games should also keep them fresher for the latter part of the season.

 

[Dax777]

Fair enough. I would say though that 77% is really quiet low, it's the lowest in our squad, Hart aside. And the difference between 77% and 86% is quiet stark at Premier league level.

We all know Silva isn't necessarily about chances created, but how many times are he or Ya Ya for that matter provide the pass before the assist? I would guess(as there are now stats for this) that a good percentage of chances De Bruyne creates are on the back of a Silva pass.

By the way, DeBryune also leads us in the pass before the assist department. So not only does he have the most assists, creates the most chances, he also leads in the key pass before an assist department. He is simply a creator. His skillset are quite unique. It's him, Mueller, Mkhitaryn, and Reus. They push the ball early, and see plays quicker than anyone. Their movement tests the defenses resolve. Itscnot really a counter attack thing. Their speed of thought makes it seem like they are counterattacking, but it simply quick open play football.

 

[BillyShears]

Fair enough. I would say though that 77% is really quiet low, it's the lowest in our squad, Hart aside. And the difference between 77% and 86% is quiet stark at Premier league level.

We all know Silva isn't necessarily about chances created, but how many times are he or Ya Ya for that matter provide the pass before the assist? I would guess(as there are now stats for this) that a good percentage of chances De Bruyne creates are on the back of a Silva pass.

It is low, but it is easily balanced against his production rate both in terms of assists, goals, and key passes. Looking at his pass completion % in isolation for me doesn't really tell you anything. It's what he's doing with the balls that are finding their man that give context to the overall %. Same applies to Silva. I also bet KDB has the better pre assist % too.

I think it would also be fair to say in general wide attackers or wingers have lower pass completion %'s than central playmakers. And overall Silva has played centrally much more than KDB has so far this season.

As an aside Messi and Neymar both have pass completion %'s this season of 80 and 81% respectively.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Yes, but let's be clear here, no one knows why the swap was made. My guess, and the more likely reason was that Silva was poor defensively on the wing supporting Zab.

Shael has disingenuously wrapped claiming 'City not playing well in the 1st 25 minutes' with' DeBryune being 'diabolical' in that period ( I.E. implying he was constantly losing us possession in that area) and thus Manuel made the switch. This is how false narratives get started and before you know it. Everyone buys into the the falsehood.

Yet, DeBryune was better than Silva in the 1st 25 minutes, Silva was partly at fault for both chances created by NCs left side, and the eventual goal.

Offensively, DeBryune created more chances than Silva in the 1st 25 minutes, lost possession fewer times. And started more attacks.

For anyone to conclude DeBryune was 'diabolical' in those 25 minutes, is frankly ridiculous.

Now that I have gone all 'fact check' on him, he suddenly doesn't want to read anymore. And would rather rest on his recollection from months ago and what the folks around him said. Lol

I am really trying not to argue so much here, few folks have opined about me always correcting others and seem to always be looking for an argument. So I want to argue less, and respond mostly to just folks I agree with a comment they make.

But blatantly false opinions like Shael makes it really hard.

Funny. My point is that the team was better when Silva went central. You are somehow trying to argue against that point by saying De Bruyne played better in the middle than Silva did on the right?! Haha! Can you not see the obvious flaw in your logic??

If you want to have a debate about who was better in the first 25 minutes of that game, that's a completely different discussion. Frankly, both of them were poor in the opening 25 minutes, I'd agree Silva was partly culpable for the goal, so if it makes you feel strong, let's say I agree, De Bruyne was better than Silva in the opening 25 minutes.

Now let's get back to the actual debate, was the team better with Silva as the central playmaker, or with De Bruyne as the central playmaker? Go and look at the stats if you wish (CLUE: we were 1-0 down with De Bruyne central, and won 6-1 after Silva went central).

And just for the avoidance of doubt, I was screaming at Pellegrini to swap Silva and De Bruyne after about 10 minutes in that game. The team was diabolical in that opening 25 minutes, if you don't believe me, simply ask anyone who was there, or even better, check out the match day thread if you wish. I think that's one of the things you and BS struggle to understand, it is the responsibility of the playmaker to help the team play.

 

[mardon85]

Our drop in form has nothing to do with Kev. The fact we can't defend for shit with vinny is the issue there. The fact we've also been missing a world class striker in Aguero for many matched has certainly not helped.

Kev is class. Maybe he needs a slight rest but when you really watch him, especially live the little things he does are fantastic. The passes he picks out are mental.
OK sometimes things go a little array but he's still a fantastic player.

 

[BillyShears]

The team's performances, results, and certainly defensive solidity is incomparably better without De Bruyne in the team.

Haha. The king of hyperbole strikes again.

 

[mad zab]

I'm not sure if you understand what a stat is? A stat is a fact that represents a collection of data for example, a collection of assists.

Ok, so you're saying he is a playmaker, and that is his best position. But you're also saying he hasn't played there for us. So on what are you basing your opinion about his best position?

If it is his performances for Wolfsburg, I can only refer to my earlier posts. Wolfsburg were a supreme counter attacking team. De Bruyne was expert at exploiting space behind defences that have pushed up. Unfortunately City don't play against many teams that push high up against us, so it negates his "playmaking" style.

Your counter argument to that is that he's been much better at home. I agree he has, but you're missing something crucial here.

His good performances at home have come when he isn't playing as a playmaker. His good performances have come when he's been playing wide and Silva has been playing as the playmaker. That's where his excellent stats / facts as you call them have come from. Wide. Newcastle and Sunderland, two big wins, De Bruyne's 2 best performances, when he's been wide.

His worst performances - first 25 against Newcastle, the whole game against Everton - he was playing as the playmaker. Bad stats, bad facts, bad performance.

The strange irony of this thread is that the same people who argue that De Bruyne should play centrally are the ones who use his assist and goal stats as crucial evidence to back up their point. What they fail to realise, is that in a Manchester City shirt, his impressive stats have come from him playing wide. Even more absurd, his best performances have come when David Silva has been playing centrally, and he's the guy these people want to drop for him! You really couldn't make it up. Only on Bluemoon, and only when the usual Wums are involved.

He played as a number 10 at Wolfsburg. It was his performances for them is why we paid the money we did.

Once again I have never said he has played as a playmaker for us. therefore his only performances have been from a wide position. So I didn't miss anything crucial. I was well aware where he was playing from. You stated in one of your posts that he wasn't a playmaker. I disagree. I guess we will see who is correct when he is given a run in that position like he did at Wolfsburg, not just the odd game.

 

[mad zab]

Sorry, you are suggesting rotating two entirely different players in one pivotal position? Is this a joke? You expect a team to work where the integral pivot in the team is rotated between two entirely different players with two entirely different skill sets?

This is insane. This is the reason we've been so inconsistent. Both De Bruyne and Silva are totally different players.

Yes they are and both offer different solutions from that position. Silva probes for opening by keeping the ball moving, looking for an opportunity to play someone in. KDB will look for an opening sooner, and will also try for goal himself much more than Silva. Silva can't play every game and IMO KDB should be the one he rotates with.

 

[BillyShears]

KDB will look for an opening sooner, and will also try for goal himself much more than Silva. Silva can't play every game and IMO KDB should be the one he rotates with.

I guess that that is the crux of this discussion and there are 3 camps. Those who think that KDB is a better number 10 than Silva. Those who think they are both top number 10's and the player in form should play. And those who, forgive my hysterical laughter, think we should just drop De Bruyne full stop, play Navas until the end of the season with an out of form Silva at number 10.