Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[Silva_Spell]

By the way, DeBryune also leads us in the pass before the assist department. So not only does he have the most assists, creates the most chances, he also leads in the key pass before an assist department. He is simply a creator. His skillset are quite unique. It's him, Mueller, Mkhitaryn, and Reus. They push the ball early, and see plays quicker than anyone. Their movement tests the defenses resolve. Itscnot really a counter attack thing. Their speed of thought makes it seem like they are counterattacking, but it simply quick open play football.

Where do you get this stat from?

"Key pass" on sites like squawka doesn't mean the assist for the assist. All it means is Chances Created + Assists

 

[Shaelumstash]

Haha. The king of hyperbole strikes again.

The queen of wums strikes again.

First 5 games, 5 wins, 0 conceded, no De Bruyne.

We've not won 2 on the spin since October, we're a defensive shambles, De Bruyne has been an ever present.

 

[Shaelumstash]

He played as a number 10 at Wolfsburg. It was his performances for them is why we paid the money we did.

Once again I have never said he has played as a playmaker for us. therefore his only performances have been from a wide position. So I didn't miss anything crucial. I was well aware where he was playing from. You stated in one of your posts that he wasn't a playmaker. I disagree. I guess we will see who is correct when he is given a run in that position like he did at Wolfsburg, not just the odd game.

Once again you've chosen not to read my post.

I specifically asked you if you were basing your opinion on his Wolfsburg performances. It seems you are, well I've already spelled out to you why a number 10 role for Wolfsburg is very different to a number 10 role for City, so the comparison is futile. Feel free to read over those earlier ones again.

I didn't say he wasn't a playmaker. I said he hasn't played many games for City as a playmaker. And the ones where he has, he's been pretty dreadful.

 

[schfc6]

Yes, but let's be clear here, no one knows why the swap was made. My guess, and the more likely reason was that Silva was poor defensively on the wing supporting Zab.

Shael has disingenuously wrapped claiming 'City not playing well in the 1st 25 minutes' with' DeBryune being 'diabolical' in that period ( I.E. implying he was constantly losing us possession in that area) and thus Manuel made the switch. This is how false narratives get started and before you know it. Everyone buys into the the falsehood.

Yet, DeBryune was better than Silva in the 1st 25 minutes, Silva was partly at fault for both chances created by NCs left side, and the eventual goal.

Offensively, DeBryune created more chances than Silva in the 1st 25 minutes, lost possession fewer times. And started more attacks.

For anyone to conclude DeBryune was 'diabolical' in those 25 minutes, is frankly ridiculous.

Now that I have gone all 'fact check' on him, he suddenly doesn't want to read anymore. And would rather rest on his recollection from months ago and what the folks around him said. Lol

I am really trying not to argue so much here, few folks have opined about me always correcting others and seem to always be looking for an argument. So I want to argue less, and respond mostly to just folks I agree with a comment they make.

But blatantly false opinions like Shael makes it really hard.

The best way for me to explain the difference between the two in my opinion.

I sit in Colin Bell lower, Isle/block 130. When Silva is playing, you can see a total difference in the game. If Hart, a full back, centre back or Ya Ya have the ball they look for the space between midfield, central defence and their full back. Silva will sprint into this space, take the ball either in space or with a man on. He will then dictate play for a period. He will use our full back, Ya Ya, Sergio a wide man to create more space higher up field. He will then use this space to play in a full back or a De Bruyne or Navas, in turn they will play the pass that creates the chance or block in Navas's case;-).

This pattern will be repeated on both sides of the pitch, continually Silva will drop, revived the ball, turn, gain ten yards with the help of 3 or 4. Push the opposition back, he will then look to use runners who create the chance or if there's space he will play the killer ball. Sergio and him are terrific together.

Contrast this with De Bruyne in his City career to date. De Bruyne doesn't want the ball with his back to goal. He doesn't want to build up play slowly and push teams back with triangles using the team, these are not his attributes. In my opinion De Bruyne likes a Silva like player to deliver him the ball, allowing him to play a quick one touch pass, often a dangerous or creative pass. For me, De Bruyne doesn't want to keep the ball, gain ground through possession he wants to kill with possession. Not saying he can't keep possession but he is not suited to the role of play maker. He doesn't suit taking the ball in tight spaces, he doesn't want the Barry's of this World nipping at his ankles just so he can gain ten yards, he wants the ball in front of him, so he can play his killer ball, try his killer cross/through ball. This is not a fault, this is an attribute.

For me Silva, Ozil or Fabregas are play makers, they use the whole pitch to dictate the game. They are as happy deep as on the edge of the box. The games runs through them. They are unselfish, take the fouls, foul themselves all to help the team tick.

In contrast is see De Bruyne more of a Hazard, a Sanchez a player 100% capable of creating from advanced position, beating a man and capable of both individually brilliant goals and assists. I don't see them totally comfortable recieving the ball deep, creating. I see them as players with the brilliance to effect any game at any point. For this they need a play maker alongside them.

 

[teddykgb]

The queen of wums strikes again.

First 5 games, 5 wins, 0 conceded, no De Bruyne.

We've not won 2 on the spin since October, we're a defensive shambles, De Bruyne has been an ever present.

this is just such a lousy, lousy point and it's been pointed out to you multiple times. It's just a correlation. There were tons of things different then, KDB's arrival is only one. The play in the final few games of that 5 match run wasn't even very good and any team is liable to have a string of results at some point in the season. It's simply not credible to point to the W/L record and say that it must be because of KDB. Maybe it's because the squad were healthy or fresh? Maybe it's because Sterling wasn't in the poor form he's in right now. Maybe they just love playing in warmer weather? There's just nothing to this point at all.

 

[BillyShears]

The queen of wums strikes again.

First 5 games, 5 wins, 0 conceded, no De Bruyne.

We've not won 2 on the spin since October, we're a defensive shambles, De Bruyne has been an ever present.

Yes so it must be De Bruyne's fault. That's definitely flawless logic.

Also, we're a defensive shambles yet we've conceded an entire 4 more goals than the team with the best defensive record in the league. A team below us in the league.

 

[schfc6]

Yes they are and both offer different solutions from that position. Silva probes for opening by keeping the ball moving, looking for an opportunity to play someone in. KDB will look for an opening sooner, and will also try for goal himself much more than Silva. Silva can't play every game and IMO KDB should be the one he rotates with.

Exactly creating a totally inconsistent mess. Much like we are seeing this season.

 

[Dax777]

The best way for me to explain the difference between the two in my opinion.

I sit in Colin Bell lower, Isle/block 130. When Silva is playing, you can see a total difference in the game. If Hart, a full back, centre back or Ya Ya have the ball they look for the space between midfield, central defence and their full back. Silva will sprint into this space, take the ball either in space or with a man on. He will then dictate play for a period. He will use our full back, Ya Ya, Sergio a wide man to create more space higher up field. He will then use this space to play in a full back or a De Bruyne or Navas, in turn they will play the pass that creates the chance or block in Navas's case;-).

This pattern will be repeated on both sides of the pitch, continually Silva will drop, revived the ball, turn, gain ten yards with the help of 3 or 4. Push the opposition back, he will then look to use runners who create the chance or if there's space he will play the killer ball. Sergio and him are terrific together.

Contrast this with De Bruyne in his City career to date. De Bruyne doesn't want the ball with his back to goal. He doesn't want to build up play slowly and push teams back with triangles using the team, these are not his attributes. In my opinion De Bruyne likes a Silva like player to deliver him the ball, allowing him to play a quick one touch pass, often a dangerous or creative pass. For me, De Bruyne doesn't want to keep the ball, gain ground through possession he wants to kill with possession. Not saying he can't keep possession but he is not suited to the role of play maker. He doesn't suit taking the ball in tight spaces, he doesn't want the Barry's of this World nipping at his ankles just so he can gain ten yards, he wants the ball in front of him, so he can play his killer ball, try his killer cross/through ball. This is not a fault, this is an attribute.

For me Silva, Ozil or Fabregas are play makers, they use the whole pitch to dictate the game. They are as happy deep as on the edge of the box. The games runs through them. They are unselfish, take the fouls, foul themselves all to help the team tick.

In contrast is see De Bruyne more of a Hazard, a Sanchez a player 100% capable of creating from advanced position, beating a man and capable of both individually brilliant goals and assists. I don't see them totally comfortable recieving the ball deep, creating. I see them as players with the brilliance to effect any game at any point. For this they need a play maker alongside them.

Nothing you said above is necessarily wrong. It's just a different way of playing the same position. Doesn't make one any better or worse. Just different. Silva is more Aesthetically pleasing, and DeBryune is more effective. Silva is more inclusive of teammates, DeBryune is more destructive of opponents. Silva ows the game down, DeBryune speeds it up.

 

[Shaelumstash]

this is just such a lousy, lousy point and it's been pointed out to you multiple times. It's just a correlation. There were tons of things different then, KDB's arrival is only one. The play in the final few games of that 5 match run wasn't even very good and any team is liable to have a string of results at some point in the season. It's simply not credible to point to the W/L record and say that it must be because of KDB. Maybe it's because the squad were healthy or fresh? Maybe it's because Sterling wasn't in the poor form he's in right now. Maybe they just love playing in warmer weather? There's just nothing to this point at all.

It's not been "pointed out to me multiple times" pal because my point is not that De Bruyne is directly responsible for us conceding goals.

I merely pointed out earlier that the team was playing better at the start of the season without De Bruyne in it. A regular poster, who's a well known wum, claimed it was hyperbole to suggest we were better without De Bruyne in the side. My post that you quoted wasn't intended as catch-all analysis, it was simply a rebuttal to the "Hyperbole" accusation.

You're quite right, maybe the squad were more fresh, maybe it's all Sterling's fault, maybe it's the dreadful weather we're having, but I'm sure you're intelligent enough to accept, maybe it's because the team was more balanced then?

It's clearly a combination of factors why we are out of form. I'm not for one minute suggesting that De Bruyne is directly at fault for all of our problems, of course I'm not.

My point is that our best form has come at the start of the season, before De Bruyne was signed. It's inarguable that it was our best period of form. Yes the weather was better etc, but the team also had balance. It functioned as a footballing unit. We can't test whether it's the weather, freshness etc that is unbalancing the team, so that's all speculative.

What we can do is try to play that same front 4 we started the season with and see if it works. I doubt the bad weather will turn it from a perfectly functioning machine in to a calamitous mess. My view is let's try it for 3 or 4 games. We know it worked in the summer, maybe it won't work in the winter, but let's try, because what we're going for at the moment isn't working is it?

My point is the best team doesn't necessarily need to have the best 11 footballers. A good recent example is Ibrahimovic at Barca. He cost 60m, the most expensive in Barca's history. Was he a better player than Pedro? Undoubtedly. Did the team function better with Ibra or Pedro in it? I'll leave you to decide.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I guess that that is the crux of this discussion and there are 3 camps. Those who think that KDB is a better number 10 than Silva. Those who think they are both top number 10's and the player in form should play. And those who, forgive my hysterical laughter, think we should just drop De Bruyne full stop, play Navas until the end of the season with an out of form Silva at number 10.

There's another group. Last week this group wanted Silva "Shipped out" and for De Bruyne to play at 10 from now on. This week after warning from mods, they're flip flopping a bit. Next week, they'll probably be campaigning for Donald Trump for president. Whatever will get them the most attention during their sad, lonely winter nights.