Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[schfc6]

The only arse on here is you!

KDB has been playing from a wide position for most games and he is always looking to move the ball forward quickly in order to get behind the opposition defences. He takes more risks than most players, and this is why his pass completion is less than others. However, when he does complete them he is inevitably creating goal scoring chances. People like you go on about ball retention, however you can have centre halves who have 90% pass completion. What matters is the end product and in that KDB is up there.

So you know where you can stick your fucking percentages!

Thanks for that, I didn't realise I was an arse for resenting being spoken down to by a clown.
As for your point? I am confused? Are you comparing Silva with centre halves? Are you suggesting the best attacking midfielder City have ever had, plays it safe? Am I comparing De Bruyne to De Jong? No I'm comparing him to players of his ilk.
By your own admission De Bruyne takes too many risks with the ball to be our play maker.

Again, I'm argueing with someone who doesn't understand their own arguement. You freely admit that De Bruyne takes risks, relinquishes play too cheaply yet are advocating him as a playmaker.

Your last line sums you up perfectly. Who cares how often the player responsible for dictating the gives it away. Oh that's right, the manager and his team mates. One thing is for fucking sure, we certainly don't need to encourage 8 additional counter attacks every game.

Perhaps you and Bully sorry Billy think City would be best offering the opposition even more chances to attack. The even more interesting thing about Billy's stats, despite playing 500 minutes more, giving the ball away far more often, Silva is one assist behind.

We'll have to end it here, as you also appear to questioning David Silva's 'end product'? As I say, I'll leave it there, anyone questioning Silva's end product is either mentally unwell or a novice to the game.

 

[schfc6]

To just confirm to Dax, mad zab and billy sheers, I'm not requesting a buring at the stake of De Bruyne.
I'm saying as we've now got the evidence that perhaps an attack first, goal getting front foot attacker who is fairly careless with possession but in general a very good player, a maverick on his day is not best suited to our play maker. He is best utilised elsewhere, as that will suit his and the teams strengths.
I am not suggesting he be dropped and Fernando take his place due to superior ball retention, as some were implying. I'm suggesting that arguably City's finest ever player continue in a role that suits himself and the team much better. A role City and Silva have flourished with.

If you think a player readily described as inconsistent, statistically poor in ball retention is best suited to our playmaker then so be it, if you think Silva should be shifted to make room, then there really is no argument to have. I will simply never understand your point.

Do I think De Bruyne will be essential and contibute heavily to anything we win? Yes. I think he's a fantastic player who's attributes at present to width or impact not dictation.

 

[franksinatra]

To just confirm to Dax, mad zab and billy sheers, I'm not requesting a buring at the stake of De Bruyne.
I'm saying as we've now got the evidence that perhaps an attack first, goal getting front foot attacker who is fairly careless with possession but in general a very good player, a maverick on his day is not best suited to our play maker. He is best utilised elsewhere, as that will suit his and the teams strengths.
I am not suggesting he be dropped and Fernando take his place due to superior ball retention, as some were implying. I'm suggesting that arguably City's finest ever player continue in a role that suits himself and the team much better. A role City and Silva have flourished with.

If you think a player readily described as inconsistent, statistically poor in ball retention is best suited to our playmaker then so be it, if you think Silva should be shifted to make room, then there really is no argument to have. I will simply never understand your point.

Do I think De Bruyne will be essential and contibute heavily to anything we win? Yes. I think he's a fantastic player who's attributes at present to width or impact not dictation.

It is great you have an opinion and feel strongly about it. But do not use emotive nonsensical arguments about 'shifting Citys finest ever player' and anyone who thinks that is not worth arguing with.

Citys finest ever player and the City team have prospered, in the main, by Silva playing on the flank and drifting inwards over the past three years. So suggesting that someone who believes he reverts back to that position, or another player is better suited to that position is not worth arguing with is just ridiculous.

The arguments about KDBs merits are also open to scrutiny. The stats relating to his ball retention are pretty irrelevant as this season he has played mainly on the flanks providing the width and invariably the crosses which naturally have a poorer success rate or game would be finishing in double figures each week. The way he passes and pass selection would be completely different if he played centrally so the comparison is futile.

For the record I like Kdb out wide but believe he has thr skillset to flourish centrally. As for Silva he is a fantastic player but whether its a lack of form/recent injury or another, he has not been setting the world alight in that position. Its worthy of debate.

 

[OB1]

Fair enough. I would say though that 77% is really quiet low, it's the lowest in our squad, Hart aside. And the difference between 77% and 86% is quiet stark at Premier league level.

We all know Silva isn't necessarily about chances created, but how many times are he or Ya Ya for that matter provide the pass before the assist? I would guess(as there are now stats for this) that a good percentage of chances De Bruyne creates are on the back of a Silva pass.

There's a stat called extended assists which accounts for the last 5 touches before the scorer. For last season Yaya was second in the league and Silva fourth followed immediately by Aguero, Nasri and Milner. So five of the top seven were City players.

 

[schfc6]

It is great you have an opinion and feel strongly about it. But do not use emotive nonsensical arguments about 'shifting Citys finest ever player' and anyone who thinks that is not worth arguing with.

Citys finest ever player and the City team have prospered, in the main, by Silva playing on the flank and drifting inwards over the past three years. So suggesting that someone who believes he reverts back to that position, or another player is better suited to that position is not worth arguing with is just ridiculous.

The arguments about KDBs merits are also open to scrutiny. The stats relating to his ball retention are pretty irrelevant as this season he has played mainly on the flanks providing the width and invariably the crosses which naturally have a poorer success rate or game would be finishing in double figures each week. The way he passes and pass selection would be completely different if he played centrally so the comparison is futile.

For the record I like Kdb out wide but believe he has thr skillset to flourish centrally. As for Silva he is a fantastic player but whether its a lack of form/recent injury or another, he has not been setting the world alight in that position. Its worthy of debate.

It's neither emotive or nonsensical in any way shape or form. Is a direct discussion for two players for one position.


History, form and suitability to the system is certainly relevant and in no way nonsensical.

The point regarding his ball retention, it's a very poor return even for his position out wide. To put it in perspective, it's way down on Sterling and Navas.
I personally believe ability to retain the ball is very important. Especially in an advanced playmaker.

De Bruyne is a fantastic player but from what I've seen in a City shirt, he will need to improve a few aspects of his game if he is to challenge Silva for the central role. Nothing I have seen in either his skill set or his performances in that role have convinced me otherwise.

To clarify, fans are asking for a player who gives the ball away 1 in 4 times a game to be give a more central and more pivotal role.
My bet they are the same fans quick to have a pop at the defence or Ya Ya. Yet are indirectly asking for them to be put under more pressure.

 

[OB1]

It's not been "pointed out to me multiple times" pal because my point is not that De Bruyne is directly responsible for us conceding goals.

I merely pointed out earlier that the team was playing better at the start of the season without De Bruyne in it. A regular poster, who's a well known wum, claimed it was hyperbole to suggest we were better without De Bruyne in the side. My post that you quoted wasn't intended as catch-all analysis, it was simply a rebuttal to the "Hyperbole" accusation.

You're quite right, maybe the squad were more fresh, maybe it's all Sterling's fault, maybe it's the dreadful weather we're having, but I'm sure you're intelligent enough to accept, maybe it's because the team was more balanced then?

It's clearly a combination of factors why we are out of form. I'm not for one minute suggesting that De Bruyne is directly at fault for all of our problems, of course I'm not.

My point is that our best form has come at the start of the season, before De Bruyne was signed. It's inarguable that it was our best period of form. Yes the weather was better etc, but the team also had balance. It functioned as a footballing unit. We can't test whether it's the weather, freshness etc that is unbalancing the team, so that's all speculative.

What we can do is try to play that same front 4 we started the season with and see if it works. I doubt the bad weather will turn it from a perfectly functioning machine in to a calamitous mess. My view is let's try it for 3 or 4 games. We know it worked in the summer, maybe it won't work in the winter, but let's try, because what we're going for at the moment isn't working is it?

My point is the best team doesn't necessarily need to have the best 11 footballers. A good recent example is Ibrahimovic at Barca. He cost 60m, the most expensive in Barca's history. Was he a better player than Pedro? Undoubtedly. Did the team function better with Ibra or Pedro in it? I'll leave you to decide.

Actually the question is did Barca function better with Messi in the centre or Ibra?

 

[VOOMER]

It is great you have an opinion and feel strongly about it. But do not use emotive nonsensical arguments about 'shifting Citys finest ever player' and anyone who thinks that is not worth arguing with.

Citys finest ever player and the City team have prospered, in the main, by Silva playing on the flank and drifting inwards over the past three years. So suggesting that someone who believes he reverts back to that position, or another player is better suited to that position is not worth arguing with is just ridiculous.

The arguments about KDBs merits are also open to scrutiny. The stats relating to his ball retention are pretty irrelevant as this season he has played mainly on the flanks providing the width and invariably the crosses which naturally have a poorer success rate or game would be finishing in double figures each week. The way he passes and pass selection would be completely different if he played centrally so the comparison is futile.

For the record I like Kdb out wide but believe he has thr skillset to flourish centrally. As for Silva he is a fantastic player but whether its a lack of form/recent injury or another, he has not been setting the world alight in that position. Its worthy of debate.

Our like the rest of players he gets zero protection from the officials.

 

[Dax777]

To just confirm to Dax, mad zab and billy sheers, I'm not requesting a buring at the stake of De Bruyne

Nor have I pretended that's what I thought you were doing. I don't try to purposely misconstrue the positions of others to gain an advantage. That's just poor argument style in my opinion. I want to know exactly what you think, I see if I agree or disagree. And if I do, I want to know why our opinions differ.

I 'm saying as we've now got the evidence that perhaps an attack first, goal getting front foot attacker who is fairly careless with possession but in general a very good player, a maverick on his day is not best suited to our play maker. He is best utilised elsewhere, as that will suit his and the teams strengths.

i think you could believe that based on the stats, but seeing as he is 1. new to the team, and 2, has barely played at the CAM position here, I'd be hard press to conclude we have irrefutable evidence that fact. Especially in light of the fact that he has played there for both club and country, and deemed successful at it.

I am not suggesting he be dropped and Fernando take his place due to superior ball retention, as some were implying.

Come on mate, I'll never suggest you were saying that.

i'm suggesting that arguably City's finest ever player continue in a role that suits himself and the team much better. A role City and Silva have flourished with.

I don't think anyone is saying he shouldn't. Let's step back and understand the 2 arguments that spun 15 pages of back and forth
1. Is whether DeBryune should still command a starting shirt. I think Kdbbestfan had the best answer to that. The short answer is yes. The reasoning is that he is so superior to Navas or Sterling, that he should start even if he is not working perfectly now with Silva at the moment, because when it finally clicks for them together, it would be magnificent. I have many times made that exact point (I.E. in the Silva version of this thread)

If you think a player readily described as inconsistent, statistically poor in ball retention is best suited to our playmaker then so be it, if you think Silva should be shifted to make room, then there really is no argument to have. I will simply never understand your point.

In that case you'd be doing exactly what I pride myself at not doing, purposely misconstruing the position held by others. Again I have simply pointed out that if we play him at that position he will excel. Especially if you flank him with speedster. Luckily for us we have 2 of those. Thus I disagree that we'd need a wholesale change for it to work.

Do I think De Bruyne will be essential and contibute heavily to anything we win? Yes. I think he's a fantastic player who's attributes at present to width or impact not dictation.

Again I agree he can be good out wide, I just believe he can be far better in the middle. And the evidence of his play in the middle, was far from 'diabolical', as Shael suggested against Newcastle.

I went as far as attaching a link to the game for anyone to review.

And just for the record, in January his pass retention is at 81%., ans Silva at 86%.. He is getting better. Ibkeep telling folks.

 

[Dax777]

It is great you have an opinion and feel strongly about it. But do not use emotive nonsensical arguments about 'shifting Citys finest ever player' and anyone who thinks that is not worth arguing with.

Citys finest ever player and the City team have prospered, in the main, by Silva playing on the flank and drifting inwards over the past three years. So suggesting that someone who believes he reverts back to that position, or another player is better suited to that position is not worth arguing with is just ridiculous.

The arguments about KDBs merits are also open to scrutiny. The stats relating to his ball retention are pretty irrelevant as this season he has played mainly on the flanks providing the width and invariably the crosses which naturally have a poorer success rate or game would be finishing in double figures each week. The way he passes and pass selection would be completely different if he played centrally so the comparison is futile.

For the record I like Kdb out wide but believe he has thr skillset to flourish centrally. As for Silva he is a fantastic player but whether its a lack of form/recent injury or another, he has not been setting the world alight in that position. Its worthy of debate.

It is great you have an opinion and feel strongly about it. But do not use emotive nonsensical arguments about 'shifting Citys finest ever player' and anyone who thinks that is not worth arguing with.

Citys finest ever player and the City team have prospered, in the main, by Silva playing on the flank and drifting inwards over the past three years. So suggesting that someone who believes he reverts back to that position, or another player is better suited to that position is not worth arguing with is just ridiculous.

The arguments about KDBs merits are also open to scrutiny. The stats relating to his ball retention are pretty irrelevant as this season he has played mainly on the flanks providing the width and invariably the crosses which naturally have a poorer success rate or game would be finishing in double figures each week. The way he passes and pass selection would be completely different if he played centrally so the comparison is futile.

For the record I like Kdb out wide but believe he has thr skillset to flourish centrally. As for Silva he is a fantastic player but whether its a lack of form/recent injury or another, he has not been setting the world alight in that position. Its worthy of debate.

You should do the talking from now on. I am painfully verbose trying to do it.

 

[Shaelumstash]

When the facts don't support them, they resort to insult and trying to confuse issues.

1. You backtracked on DeBryune being 'diabolical' in the 1st 25 minutes. It is simply an impossibility. No one without bias can reach such an absurd conclusion


2. I gave you the facts, I gave you the stats, I gave you the link to watch the game yourself again. Nothing supports your claim. You are either lying to make a polenic point, or your memory is false. Either way you are WRONG!!

3. I didn't ask if you believed your eyes. I asked if you believe your memory! Big difference. The game happened months ago, you clearly have a poor recollection. But finding that out will negate your polemic overall point.

You seem incapable of keeping facts from today straight. How can we trust your memory from moths ago?

I think you're struggling here and desperately grasping and straws. I'll make it as simple as I can for you.

1. I didn't backtrack from saying De Bruyne was diabolocal in the first 25 minutes. I said it during the game, in the stadium, and I've not deviated from that path.

You tried to show me his pass completion stats as if it was some kind of proof that he excelled. I tried to explain to you, it was his movement off the ball that was diabolical. His hiding behind players, his not showing feet, him not creating angles and giving options to our deeper lying players.

These things are essential in a playmaking role, which was his job in the first 25 minutes, and he was lousy at it.

2. My memory is tip top thanks mate. As I explained to you, his movement off the ball, his making himself available was appalling. You probably wouldn't know that if you weren't at the game, which you clearly weren't. I've watched David Silva and Nasri for 5 years and they always demand the ball, constantly look for pockets of space to recieve the ball to feet, to create an outlet for the man on the ball. De Bruyne didn't do that at all in that first 25 minutes, and it played a huge contributing factor in us getting dicked by Newcastle for 25 minutes who I think were bottom of the league at the time.

Try and argue with me that De Bruyne was great in that first 25 minutes. Tell me that the team was great. Show me 100 YouTube clips, nothing at all you say or do will ever change my mind.

I was at the game, I was fuming for 25 minutes. Everyone around me was fuming. It's not a hazy memory, it's clear as day. I talked about De Bruyne's ineptness that day at the time with my mate I was sat next to. I screamed at Pellegrini to switch De Bruyne and Silva. He did so after 25 minutes and it completely changed the game.

Seriously, the Newcastle game is not a subject you can argue with me about, you weren't there and you're not qualified to even discuss it with me.

3. Mate, I'm not sure why you seem so intent on doubting my memory. It's a curious line you're going down in a last gasp attempt to try and salvage something from the argument. It's not working. It's the kind of defense Lionel Hutz in The Simpsons would come up with.

I'm sure I probably posted about that switch on 25 minutes in the hours after the game. Feel free to research it, I know you like doing that. I wasn't drinking, I wasn't smoking, there was no kind of head trauma, my recollection of the game was A1.

The change from Pellegrini to switch De Bruyne for Silva completely changed the game. Ask anyone who was there. We went from having a player playing at CAM, 10, acting as the playmaker in De Bruyne who didn't do his job very well and the team suffered for it. We were a shambles, all over the place, getting dicked by Newcastle. He switched De Bruyne and Silva and we scored 6 goals. The fact you can't see a correlation there is just absolutely baffling and alarming.

We could argue for 100 years and my position wouldn't change 1 inch so you're better directing your energies elsewhere.