Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[mad zab]

I guess that that is the crux of this discussion and there are 3 camps. Those who think that KDB is a better number 10 than Silva. Those who think they are both top number 10's and the player in form should play. And those who, forgive my hysterical laughter, think we should just drop De Bruyne full stop, play Navas until the end of the season with an out of form Silva at number 10.

If there was a like button I would have clicked it. It should be horses for courses, something I am afraid Pelle seems also unable to grasp.

 

[g180aj]

Our problem isn't about keeping the ball - it's about creating chances. What's the use of having 60% possession if we just keep passing it sideways. Yes KDB lost the ball way too much for our liking. But without his risk taking, we'd just be watching them passing sideways until we fall asleep. If you notice, even when KDB was playing a shite game, anytime we had a decent chance to score in a game, you can bet KDB is involved in it.

It's not the just losing the ball that gets to me its more specific, it grates me when he just gives it away needlessly there was a moment (can't remember wether it was Everton or palace) where he had the ball on the right and Navas ran behind the fullback and rather than pass him the ball he tried a smart arse flick and that went straight out for a goal kick! I can take him losing the ball when crossing or trying thru balls it's when he just tries a nothing pass and loses it when there is better options open and then he doesn't work hard enough every time to recover it.

 

[schfc6]

The mess we have is Pelle trying to play all his best players at one time ala Madrid. We should be selecting the best team based on who we play. You obviously have to have a nucleus of a team and then swap players based on the opposition.

For instance against West Ham, I would have gone with Ferny and Fernando in midfield in place of Yaya and Delph, because they give us a stronger base. In attack I would have gone with Raheem instead of KDB, because his pace on the counter would have bore more fruit IMO.

That's all well and good. But non of them are the play maker. A play maker by very definition dictates a teams play. Many thought a more advanced role would suit Ya Ya, it hasn't thus far. Much like whenever Kev has been deployed centrally we look void of all ideas.
To suggest interchanging De Bruyne and Silva in a settle system is totally counter productive. It would simply destabilise the team more than swapping Ya Ya and Fernando.

Whilst occupying a similar role or position on the pitch, Silva and De Bruyne are totally different. Their role in the team totally different. I litterally can't believe its a conversation. De Bruyne gives the ball away 1 in every 4 times he has it. To suggest he's a playmaker is idiotic. If he's a play maker and gives the ball away nearly 25% of the time, then sorry, he's shite.
He is not shite however, he is a brilliant front foot attacking footballer. To ask him to dictate a game is taking away his strengths not helping them.

 

[mad zab]

That's all well and good. But non of them are the play maker. A play maker by very definition dictates a teams play. Many thought a more advanced role would suit Ya Ya, it hasn't thus far. Much like whenever Kev has been deployed centrally we look void of all ideas.
To suggest interchanging De Bruyne and Silva in a settle system is totally counter productive. It would simply destabilise the team more than swapping Ya Ya and Fernando.

Whilst occupying a similar role or position on the pitch, Silva and De Bruyne are totally different. Their role in the team totally different. I litterally can't believe its a conversation. De Bruyne gives the ball away 1 in every 4 times he has it. To suggest he's a playmaker is idiotic. If he's a play maker and gives the ball away nearly 25% of the time, then sorry, he's shite.
He is not shite however, he is a brilliant front foot attacking footballer. To ask him to dictate a game is taking away his strengths not helping them.

So he didn't dictate games for Wolfsburg?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Dax777]

It's fine, it's pretty clear the game escapes you. Pace has nothing to do with breaking teams down if they sit deep.

Lol. Ok. You are WRONG, but it will take too much explaining. But here is a clue, even teams who sit deep don't keep 10 men back the whole game. You figure the rest out.

As I posted earlier see Everton away and home two weeks ago.

My point remains, will never change, a play maker wants to be on the ball as much as possible, dictates play. De Bruyne throughout his career has never shown these qualities.

Can De Bruyne be an effective off the striker? A 10, yes, yes he can. But not a play maker. I think the differences between the two are escaping you.

OK let's clear this up already, 'Playmaker' is simply what the ancients called the guy who fed the balls to the strikers with some panache. But, playmaker has meant different things at different times, and different things depending on the school of thought you subscribe to. But none of this is relevant here.
Shael started the claim and was responded to by others including you and I.
Since we are talking about City, who uses a 4231 formation (playmaker here is an euphemism. It is synonymous to the CAM position).
Playmaker for the purposes of this discussion ( as defined by Shaels initial exchange on the issue) simply means the middle guy in the 3 Attacking mid position. And whether, DeBryune can play it well there.
So stop trying to sound half intelligent on an irrelevant point. It diminishes the discussion

The ability to understand issues within the correct context, often is a greater indicator of intelligence on the issue. You'd be well served to learn that.

Did you even watch us at home to Everton? Every single point or concern I have raised was painfully evident in that game.

Please what were your issues? List them so we know them. I was gonna watch the first leg again this evening. Now I have another reason to watch.

the easiest way for you to understand would be to look at a touch map of both Silva and De Bruyne in a central role.
It will be painfully obvious what I'm talking about.
I'm not nor have I ever said De Bruyne can't play centrally off a striker, but as a traditional Silvaesq not for me.

No one ever said he played it like Silva. I believe my exact words were ' they play it differently'. This doesn't .mean he can't play the position. What match do you want me to watch the touch map for? Everton?

De Bruyne to play centrally for us there needs to be wholesale changes thoughout the squad.

Wrong. Put Navas and Sterling outside of DeBryune and we will probablt excel. Suddenly you have 3 AMs who all want to push the issue early and move it quickly.

 

[kaz7]

 

[schfc6]

If there was a like button I would have clicked it. It should be horses for courses, something I am afraid Pelle seems also unable to grasp.

Funny, as I see it as a total arse like comment as usual.

The funny thing is billy, doesn't have much of an arguement and the arguement he does have, he doesn't fully understand.

He agrees that De Bruyne's attributes are best suited to a counter attacking side. Pace, tempo, directness. He agreed that De Bruyne's passing stats are way down on the rest of our midfield. Yet believes he should be entrusted with a role where ball retention is essential.

I've not seen one post that suggests De Bruyne should be dropped full stop. As I've said, even people wanted to be an arse to his level, it wouldn't be hard.

For a start, the clown doesn't think there's much difference between giving the ball away 23 times in 100 and 14 times in a 100.

I've not seen any posts to suggest De Bruyne is anything but excellent, just not excellent as our play maker with our squad.

If you and Shears think De Bruyne being charged with dictating our play being our playmaker and giving the ball away 25% of the time, 1 in every 4 times he gets is a good idea, then honestly football isn't for you. It's simply idiotic. Even more so considering how susceptible we are to the counter attack.

 

[teddykgb]

I half wonder whether the answer is to actually play Pellegrini's famed 4-2-2-2. KDB and Silva both play as CAMs with a striker essentially ahead of them. We probably don't have the fullbacks for the system right now with Kolarov out and Zaba being managed as we'd lack their width but if you played a Delph/Fernandinho midfield you'd essentially have all the pieces in save Sterling/Navas

 

[mad zab]

Funny, as I see it as a total arse like comment as usual.

The funny thing is billy, doesn't have much of an arguement and the arguement he does have, he doesn't fully understand.

He agrees that De Bruyne's attributes are best suited to a counter attacking side. Pace, tempo, directness. He agreed that De Bruyne's passing stats are way down on the rest of our midfield. Yet believes he should be entrusted with a role where ball retention is essential.

I've not seen one post that suggests De Bruyne should be dropped full stop. As I've said, even people wanted to be an arse to his level, it wouldn't be hard.

For a start, the clown doesn't think there's much difference between giving the ball away 23 times in 100 and 14 times in a 100.

I've not seen any posts to suggest De Bruyne is anything but excellent, just not excellent as our play maker with our squad.

If you and Shears think De Bruyne being charged with dictating our play being our playmaker and giving the ball away 25% of the time, 1 in every 4 times he gets is a good idea, then honestly football isn't for you. It's simply idiotic. Even more so considering how susceptible we are to the counter attack.

The only arse on here is you!

KDB has been playing from a wide position for most games and he is always looking to move the ball forward quickly in order to get behind the opposition defences. He takes more risks than most players, and this is why his pass completion is less than others. However, when he does complete them he is inevitably creating goal scoring chances. People like you go on about ball retention, however you can have centre halves who have 90% pass completion. What matters is the end product and in that KDB is up there.

So you know where you can stick your fucking percentages!

 

[schfc6]

Lol. Ok. You are WRONG, but it will take too much explaining. But here is a clue, even teams who sit deep don't keep 10 men back the whole game. You figure the rest out.


Oh dear, you can't run at a wall, there is no space to run in to. It's pretty basic. We largely play against teams sitting back. Running won't help. As for hitting teams on the break, as I said watch Everton at home. There was litterally no room to use pace, they were too deep. In the last 3 minutes they ventured forward. We hit them on the break, Sterling was hauled down.

"OK let's clear this up already, 'Playmaker' is simply what the ancients called the guy who fed the balls to the strikers with some panache. But, playmaker has meant different things at different times, and different things depending on the school of thought you subscribe to. But none of this is relevant here.
Shael started the claim and was responded to by others including you and I.
Since we are talking about City, who uses a 4231 formation (playmaker here is an euphemism. It is synonymous to the CAM position).
Playmaker for the purposes of this discussion ( as defined by Shaels initial exchange on the issue) simply means the middle guy in the 3 Attacking mid position. And whether, DeBryune can play it well there.
So stop trying to sound half intelligent on an irrelevant point. It diminishes the discussion

The ability to understand issues within the correct context, often is a greater indicator of intelligence on the issue. You'd be well served to learn that."

Well, we wholeheartedly disagree here. Nice use of CAM, direct from Champ Manager no doubt. The clue is in the 'M'. M stands for midfielder. A midfielder takes part in all aspects of the game. Hence me asking you to look at one of Silva's touch or heat maps.
A CAM as you like to call it dictates play, is responsible for the pace of he play, the controle and how the whole team sets up. They need to be excellent in fields of vision, retention and passing. Whilst being able to take the ball in positions all over the pitch.

This where I think DevBruyne struggles. As I say watch Everton at home. Then tell me who's more adept and who suits zCity better.




"Please what were your issues? List them so we know them. I was gonna watch the first leg again this evening. Now I have another reason to watch."

I've highlighted why I feel De Bruyne is not suited to our 'CAM'. Everton at home will better highlight this. He gave possession away cheaply, was rarely on the ball. Didn't show for either full back or centre half much at all. Was only interested whilst going forwards and basically played as a second striker. I don't think he came deep to receive the ball, turn and carry it once. As Everton had effectively reduced any space in behind he was effectively clueless. His final action, a bewildered looking hapless drive from 30 yards high wide and handsome. The moment Silva replaced him, the whole team look totally different.
As I say watch the game.

"No one ever said he played it like Silva. I believe my exact words were ' they play it differently'. This doesn't .mean he can't play the position. What match do you want me to watch the touch map for? Everton?"

See a touch map for any of the first 4 games of the season. Yes, they play it differently, that's why its daft to interchange them..


"Wrong. Put Navas and Sterling outside of DeBryune and we will probablt excel. Suddenly you have 3 AMs who all want to push the issue early and move it quickly.

"


Lol. Ok. You are WRONG, but it will take too much explaining. But here is a clue, even teams who sit deep don't keep 10 men back the whole game. You figure the rest out.


Oh dear, you can't run at a wall, there is no space to run in to. It's pretty basic. We largely play against teams sitting back. Running won't help. As for hitting teams on the break, as I said watch Everton at home. There was litterally no room to use pace, they were too deep. In the last 3 minutes they ventured forward. We hit them on the break, Sterling was hauled down.

OK let's clear this up already, 'Playmaker' is simply what the ancients called the guy who fed the balls to the strikers with some panache. But, playmaker has meant different things at different times, and different things depending on the school of thought you subscribe to. But none of this is relevant here.
Shael started the claim and was responded to by others including you and I.
Since we are talking about City, who uses a 4231 formation (playmaker here is an euphemism. It is synonymous to the CAM position).
Playmaker for the purposes of this discussion ( as defined by Shaels initial exchange on the issue) simply means the middle guy in the 3 Attacking mid position. And whether, DeBryune can play it well there.
So stop trying to sound half intelligent on an irrelevant point. It diminishes the discussion

The ability to understand issues within the correct context, often is a greater indicator of intelligence on the issue. You'd be well served to learn that.

Well, we wholeheartedly disagree here. Nice use of CAM, direct from Champ Manager no doubt. The clue is in the 'M'. M stands for midfielder. A midfielder takes part in all aspects of the game. Hence me asking you to look at one of Silva's touch or heat maps.
A CAM as you like to call it dictates play, is responsible for the pace of he play, the controle and how the whole team sets up. They need to be excellent in fields of vision, retention and passing. Whilst being able to take the ball in positions all over the pitch.

This where I think DevBruyne struggles. As I say watch Everton at home. Then tell me who's more adept and who suits zCity better.




Please what were your issues? List them so we know them. I was gonna watch the first leg again this evening. Now I have another reason to watch.

I've highlighted why I feel De Bruyne is not suited to our 'CAM'. Everton at home will better highlight this. He gave possession away cheaply, was rarely on the ball. Didn't show for either full back or centre half much at all. Was only interested whilst going forwards and basically played as a second striker. I don't think he came deep to receive the ball, turn and carry it once. As Everton had effectively reduced any space in behind he was effectively clueless. His final action, a bewildered looking hapless drive from 30 yards high wide and handsome. The moment Silva replaced him, the whole team look totally different.
As I say watch the game.

No one ever said he played it like Silva. I believe my exact words were ' they play it differently'. This doesn't .mean he can't play the position. What match do you want me to watch the touch map for? Everton?

See a touch map for any of the first 4 games of the season. Yes, they play it differently, that's why its daft to interchange them..


Wrong. Put Navas and Sterling outside of DeBryune and we will probablt excel. Suddenly you have 3 AMs who all want to push the issue early and move it quickly.





Only works if the opposition are pushing forwards. As I've repeatedly said. The irony in the last bit is a joke right? Did you watch the first month of the season? Not to mention the ridiculous chemistry between Sergio and Aguero.

As I've said, there's no reason why they both can't play, but they are very different and a total change in system and style would be needed to play De Bruyne as 'CAM'. He's had opportunities and it's nas not taken them. He and the team look better with him elsewhere.m