Kiev post match reaction thread - PLEASE keep it in here.

[gio's side step]

We were considered favourites because the English league is considered by most to be the strongest or one of the top 2 strongest leagues in European football at present (and we are the highest ranked English side left in it) and because we have players in our side who anyone else left in the competition would like to sign. Add to that, Fulham reached the final of this competition last season.

Liverpool have more European experience than us? therefore in my eyes, regardless of players they have to better placed than us? still some big regualr European teams left in that comp.

So Fulham had more European experience than the majority of sides in it last season? Tevez, Balotelli, Dzeko, Yaya, Silva have CL experience. De Jong, Kompany, Kolarov have Europa experience

 

[Soulboy]

Bizarrely enough, I still have a sneaky feeling that we might very well go through next week.

I think Mancini may see the pressure off us, and release the shackles. Shit or bust, that sort of thing.

Now I realise he has never done that yet in his time as manager, but as we prepare for a Wembley semi-final, and the league has taken a back seat, I think he will go for it, knowing he has little to lose (as he has the back up of a Wembley visit to come).

But if he doesn't... then get those pitchforks and burning torches ready for after the match!

I can write the script now. They put 11 behind the ball. We have 75% posession. We miss a few chances and final ball lets us down. WE score on 65 minutes and get our tails up. We have more posession but can't really create serious openings. On 83 minutes they break away through a Kolorov error and score. The ground empties.

That's absolute nonsense DD.

















The ground will be empty far earlier than that...<br /><br />-- Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:42 pm --<br /><br />I think people on here are forgetting just how tough the Europa League really is.

The fact that in the past five years Middlesbrough, Glasgow Rangers and Fulham have made the final is just luck...

 

[critic]

Come on people!
Did you see the last two games (FA cup and PL). Edin was sitting on the bench. I dont understand how come Mancini expects goals from him, when he doesent even play. In the game against Notts he was excellent with Tevez. Why is Mancini forsing Ballo - maybe because he is Italian? Even Tevez said that he is compactibile with Dzeko so where is the problem - I dont see it!!!
They were fine together but the philosopher Mancini blowe it up.
Also every player who comes to City becomes lazy when he is constantly on the bench and every day he gets more fatt and fatt. Yust look at Kolo and Yaya. And we have a result and that is playing slow and crap.
If the great philosopher doesent get fired we will loose in every game!

 

[inbetween]

Here's my (big) rant.

Our main problem for me is the reliance on adaptable players. We have Yaya trying to play an attacking midfielder role sometimes, sometimes he plays like last night the De Jong role but it stifles the possibility of a true natural midfielder because Mancini knows Yaya can play as an attacking midfielder so therefore won't buy one i mean christ we've had Zabs and Kolarov in midfield recently, 2 players who have played as defenders all their careers.

Our distribution is woefully slow and teams are finding it far to easy to just park the bus and they know they'll get time to organize themselves for anything. It's so predictable, we are always going to be looking for Silva and they just match the runs made off his passes or mark the space he passes into and that is our only outlet, except for when Micah is forward they don't need to worry about width as the chances of a cross coming in onto Dzeko's head are practically zero. We just don't look dangerous at all, we pick off chances from scraps and mistakes by the opposition rather than look to create an opening ourselves, we just seem to rely on something special from Dzeko,Tevez,Balotelli and when it doesn't happen we have to rely on striking lucky (see Wigan game).

Dzeko is never going to score big for us unless we use him PROPERLY, at the moment he picks up the ball and has to do everything himself because he has no support play, what happened to the give and go's, a pass a run and a ball over the top, he's bloody massive why can't we use this to our advantage, instead he gets the ball and then has to become Lionel Messi.

I understand we have a very fluid system in the sense that Dzeko can come out wide and make space for someone else but he needs to be given chance after chance, not messing about on the left. His strengths are finishing and aerial ability so stick him in the bloody middle and force the strikers who naturally come deep out wide, having Dzeko collect on the left or right basically means there is a gap in the middle filled by 2 centre halves. Any player of ours moving into that space can easily be tracked.

Corners we are clueless, randomly hitting the ball into the box with the hope it meets a City player, same for free kicks there just isn't a plan, Kolarov,Balotelli both couldn't beat the first man. We have the tallest player on the pitch in the middle and surely these lads can take a corner and put it on his head, don't they work runs for example to the near post like the Notts County goal at their ground? I've never seen any movement when we get corners yet we have some big lads in there who can cause hell. I seriously don't think we even practice any form of set pieces movement because there isn't any, its just so predictable.

The whole point of a fluid system like ours is the fact you can't truly man mark anyone yielding unpredictability but we constrain creativity by being forced out wide yet we don't have anyone who can cross and no-one gets in the box.. Then the person forced out there is the tallest person on the pitch, where is that going to go? We can't lump it into the box because no-one will be there and again we start going backwards and playing short passes around their area before being picked off and like last night an opposition counter begins.

As of late i've found City very frustrating to watch, i'm all for Mancini's philosophy of not conceding etc but last night we conceded 2 stupid goals and looked largely average going forward, it's like we are constraining creativity in favour of possession and decreasing risk. Tevez changed the dynamic a little but he just tries to beat everyone and he gave the ball away several times. We played last night like a team that knows how to stop the goals coming in but is a bit clueless when it comes to scoring. Some may quote oh yeah we scored 3 against Aris etc but those teams were shite and don't have well organized defenses. Put us against Spurs,Arsenal away and we hardly get a chance on goal, i can't see us scoring at Chelsea.

We come up against teams like Arsenal... Teams with some sort of well organized defence and suddenly we are having to play for the point, these lads are all top international players, some have already won it all. We shouldn't be having to defend for our lives against teams we should be matching them and soon we need to do more but i just can't see it happening no matter who we buy.

I know it's a work in progress and they need time but something needs to change in terms of attacking play. I'm not saying we should be battering these teams at all but we should at least have a respectable attempt or we will never win anything. The United game for example was a good display by us, it could easily of been a win but we were undone by a great goal, shit happens i'll take that any day. But losing so easily last night for example and not really mustering anything in return is not good.

I'm all for Mancini's way of playing, i've said many times i'll be fully happy with 4th and any run in the cups are a bonus and we'll be much better next year. We are well managed but sometimes i just wonder if we just took a few risks and played a bit more to some players strengths we'd have a lot more success.

Dzeko has scored for fun at every level, breaking record after record, International, Europe and club so it's funny how he comes here and hasn't really scored. I don't think it's him i think it's us, the way we play.

 

[Glasgow FCDK]

Kiev aren't a top side they benefit in europe from the home matches just like the russian and ukranian teams do. Its so cold teams like us aren't used to the conditions and they punish teams at home, they will have a shock when they come to our place alnd we ram 4 past them and that isn't an exaderation either

You do realise we scored 4 at Besiktas and 4 at BATE already in this campaign?

We are about as good away as we are at home (post Guzzaev when we were horsed in Moldova but eh, ignore that)

 

[persvenality cult]

Play young players in goal and defence and you can expect mistakes

Play two slow midfield players so often they are exhausted, and yes, the midfield will grind to a halt. It's horrible to watch, I agree, made worse by Silva having a stinker.

Despite that, from 60-80 minutes we made enough chances. I don't know what happened then. Honestly, I was extremely shocked to see Tevez's head go down when we were still 100% in the game. Not that he was alone, but Barry and Yaya can't run because they've played nearly a dozen games on the trot. Carlos has had more protection and rest than them. A depressing image.

.

 

[Anonymous]

Play young players in goal and defence and you can expect mistakes

Play two slow midfield players so often they are exhausted, and yes, the midfield will grind to a halt. It's horrible to watch, I agree, made worse by Silva having a stinker.

Despite that, from 60-80 minutes we made enough chances. I don't know what happened then. Honestly, I was extremely shocked to see Tevez's head go down when we were still 100% in the game. Not that he was alone, but Barry and Yaya can't run because they've played nearly a dozen games on the trot. Carlos has had more protection and rest than them. A depressing image.

.

What chances?

 

[persvenality cult]

Play young players in goal and defence and you can expect mistakes

Play two slow midfield players so often they are exhausted, and yes, the midfield will grind to a halt. It's horrible to watch, I agree, made worse by Silva having a stinker.

Despite that, from 60-80 minutes we made enough chances. I don't know what happened then. Honestly, I was extremely shocked to see Tevez's head go down when we were still 100% in the game. Not that he was alone, but Barry and Yaya can't run because they've played nearly a dozen games on the trot. Carlos has had more protection and rest than them. A depressing image.

.

What chances?

I know time stands still when you are waiting for your own team to get a goal back, but we had a good spell for a while, shot, chance, corner or cross every minute or two. Off the top of my head, Tevez and Yaya forced saves, Silva missed a perfect chance. Plenty of corners and crosses down the left.

I was angry when it started to get sloppy, furious when they gave up, but until point I thought they showed a bit of fight in a difficult enviroment, against a fresher opponent who were obscenely good on the night.

1-0 would have been fine. We threw it away.

 

[SamTheGuru]

Here's my (big) rant.

Our main problem for me is the reliance on adaptable players. We have Yaya trying to play an attacking midfielder role sometimes, sometimes he plays like last night the De Jong role but it stifles the possibility of a true natural midfielder because Mancini knows Yaya can play as an attacking midfielder so therefore won't buy one i mean christ we've had Zabs and Kolarov in midfield recently, 2 players who have played as defenders all their careers.

Our distribution is woefully slow and teams are finding it far to easy to just park the bus and they know they'll get time to organize themselves for anything. It's so predictable, we are always going to be looking for Silva and they just match the runs made off his passes or mark the space he passes into and that is our only outlet, except for when Micah is forward they don't need to worry about width as the chances of a cross coming in onto Dzeko's head are practically zero. We just don't look dangerous at all, we pick off chances from scraps and mistakes by the opposition rather than look to create an opening ourselves, we just seem to rely on something special from Dzeko,Tevez,Balotelli and when it doesn't happen we have to rely on striking lucky (see Wigan game).

Dzeko is never going to score big for us unless we use him PROPERLY, at the moment he picks up the ball and has to do everything himself because he has no support play, what happened to the give and go's, a pass a run and a ball over the top, he's bloody massive why can't we use this to our advantage, instead he gets the ball and then has to become Lionel Messi.

I understand we have a very fluid system in the sense that Dzeko can come out wide and make space for someone else but he needs to be given chance after chance, not messing about on the left. His strengths are finishing and aerial ability so stick him in the bloody middle and force the strikers who naturally come deep out wide, having Dzeko collect on the left or right basically means there is a gap in the middle filled by 2 centre halves. Any player of ours moving into that space can easily be tracked.

Corners we are clueless, randomly hitting the ball into the box with the hope it meets a City player, same for free kicks there just isn't a plan, Kolarov,Balotelli both couldn't beat the first man. We have the tallest player on the pitch in the middle and surely these lads can take a corner and put it on his head, don't they work runs for example to the near post like the Notts County goal at their ground? I've never seen any movement when we get corners yet we have some big lads in there who can cause hell. I seriously don't think we even practice any form of set pieces movement because there isn't any, its just so predictable.

The whole point of a fluid system like ours is the fact you can't truly man mark anyone yielding unpredictability but we constrain creativity by being forced out wide yet we don't have anyone who can cross and no-one gets in the box.. Then the person forced out there is the tallest person on the pitch, where is that going to go? We can't lump it into the box because no-one will be there and again we start going backwards and playing short passes around their area before being picked off and like last night an opposition counter begins.

As of late i've found City very frustrating to watch, i'm all for Mancini's philosophy of not conceding etc but last night we conceded 2 stupid goals and looked largely average going forward, it's like we are constraining creativity in favour of possession and decreasing risk. Tevez changed the dynamic a little but he just tries to beat everyone and he gave the ball away several times. We played last night like a team that knows how to stop the goals coming in but is a bit clueless when it comes to scoring. Some may quote oh yeah we scored 3 against Aris etc but those teams were shite and don't have well organized defenses. Put us against Spurs,Arsenal away and we hardly get a chance on goal, i can't see us scoring at Chelsea.

We come up against teams like Arsenal... Teams with some sort of well organized defence and suddenly we are having to play for the point, these lads are all top international players, some have already won it all. We shouldn't be having to defend for our lives against teams we should be matching them and soon we need to do more but i just can't see it happening no matter who we buy.

I know it's a work in progress and they need time but something needs to change in terms of attacking play. I'm not saying we should be battering these teams at all but we should at least have a respectable attempt or we will never win anything. The United game for example was a good display by us, it could easily of been a win but we were undone by a great goal, shit happens i'll take that any day. But losing so easily last night for example and not really mustering anything in return is not good.

I'm all for Mancini's way of playing, i've said many times i'll be fully happy with 4th and any run in the cups are a bonus and we'll be much better next year. We are well managed but sometimes i just wonder if we just took a few risks and played a bit more to some players strengths we'd have a lot more success.

Dzeko has scored for fun at every level, breaking record after record, International, Europe and club so it's funny how he comes here and hasn't really scored. I don't think it's him i think it's us, the way we play.

Good post.

 

[Anonymous]

I know time stands still when you are waiting for your own team to get a goal back, but we had a good spell for a while, shot, chance, corner or cross every minute or two. Off the top of my head, Tevez and Yaya forced saves, Silva missed a perfect chance. Plenty of corners and crosses down the left.

I was angry when it started to get sloppy, furious when they gave up, but until point I thought they showed a bit of fight in a difficult enviroment, against a fresher opponent who were obscenely good on the night.

1-0 would have been fine. We threw it away.

I really think it speaks volumes that we're (me included) clinging to the odd 15/20 minute good spell to try and see the bright side. For me we played better for that period, but better than abysmal, which isn't saying much.

I thought Tevez's head was fine - I think he probably just gets a little tired of constantly being called upon to bail an underperforming team out.

I've been traveling all day today so i'm sat watching the world go by as I contemplate all things City. As calm as I feel now, I still stand by what I posted earlier in the thread. To my eyes Mancini is as out of his depth as Hughes was. We've just replaced one set of problems for another.