Kiev post match reaction thread - PLEASE keep it in here.

[Bluemoon115]

I'll respond to you, you're one of the more sensible ones...

If last nights performance was in isolation, then I'd throw my arms up, say "that's football", and hope/believe that we'd do something int he second leg.

But we've been bad for a while now.

We start off in first gear, which is better than most. We rarely don't control the opening 10-20 mins. But then the opposition come alive, and we either hit the brakes when we get a goal, or stall going into 5th when we need a goal to get back into a game.

Silva had a poor game last night, that's fine, first one I can remember since he found his feet. But we had no alternative to him. No-one else was gonna play the strikers though, or bring others into the game the way he does. Another one, Zabba has been immense at left back, Kolarov has had freedom in midfield recently. So why oh why did Mancini change it back?

The one thing I have been told for over 12 months is how good Mancini is at getting his sides to defend. Yet yesterday they looked confused, shellshocked and broken at times.

But by far the most worrying thisng is that not one of these issues look like being resolved.

Fair enough mate, appreciate that and completely understand where you are coming from but i agreed with the way Mancini set up last night in that there was space down the sides of the full backs and early on both Micah and Kolarov got past the full back and in behind, unfortunately when they went a goal up they defended deeper which meant the space in behind wasn't there for Kolarov and Micah to get forward. Zab played poorly and i'd have subbed him at half time for De Jong as we needed someone in the middle to protect when they broke forward on their counter attacks

We have the players to break teams down even without Silva playing that well, unfortunately Yaya, Balo and Dzeko didn't keep the ball well enough when sometimes against teams like Kiev it's all about keeping posession and waiting for openings. Our passes were so sloppy last night after the goal and it meant we couldn't get any grip of the game, of course Mancini has to take part of the blame but i thought he got his team selection and tactics spot on at the start but goals change games and we weren't good enough to break them down afterwards. I completely agree that over the past couple of months, performances haven't been great and things need to improve.

We have an extremely difficult game against Kiev next week but we are good enough to go and win the game and the tie if our players are on form, we are still in pole position for 4th and are in the quarter finals of the FA Cup. Theres still plenty of positives in terms of where we are and i think it's silly for some posters to completely write Mancini off when we are in a strong position coming into the last 9 weeks of the season. If we perform like last night for most of the remaining games of the season then Mancini will be in big trouble but i'm still optimistic in respect that i think we'll beat Reading and i think we'll finish in the top four but at this stage no-one really knows

I hope you're right pal, and you know full well that I'd love nothing more than at the end of the season for you to come on here and go "BM115, you don't know what you're talking about you daft ****, we've fuckin done it!!!"

I'm just personally struggling to see how it will happen. As you say, only time will tell.

 

[gio's side step]

What was the gameplan, what was the shape?

I saw neither.

Just a significant proportion of the team who are not good enough and impact out performance week by week.

Mancini is reported as saying we controlled the game. Now he is kidding himself, not just us.

The shape was what it usually is. Ambiguous drivel.

Some 'sort of' attempt to get Silva cutting in and playing between the lines, and then the rest of the forward line being overly reliant on him playing some xavi/iniesta type pass in between a flat deep centre half and full back as the ONLY way to get in behind a defence. Fair play to Richards in the first half, in the sense that he did attempt to get forward and prove us with a bit more width which didn't really come off, but he's a powerful/dynamic player, not a cute, skillful player, thus without Johnson we really do only have the Silva 'through ball' option more often than not. It's all patient sideways football played in front of a defence which can read the patterns and movement, defend deep. Going to be very difficult at home, because I sense they will have quick one/two touch counter attacking football up their sleeve which is going to cause us further problems.

The more I think about Mancini, the more I realise his judgement is clouded by Italian football. In Italy, it's more about power and dynamic players (Balotelli is a more explosive player limited to certain parts of the game than a consistent threat with stamina). Dzeko is another powerful player when the ball is in the box (and not when we are asking him to be Berbatov and pick up the ball anywhere on the pitch). Yaya another. Kolarov another. These players fit a certain 'type'. Silva contasts this critically, but there is too much pressure and emphasis on him being the key player all the time in that stupid system which lacks balance and shape.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

What was the gameplan, what was the shape?

I saw neither.

Just a significant proportion of the team who are not good enough and impact out performance week by week.

Mancini is reported as saying we controlled the game. Now he is kidding himself, not just us.

Before the goal the set up and shape for me was spot on. Richards and Kolarov were getting up the pitch and getting in behind and Silva was getting space in the hole, we were controlling the game but the goal changed the game and we went to sloppy passing and looking like we had no idea how to break them down for the rest of the half. Second half i thought we did ok in terms of keeping the ball but we weren't good enough in terms of creating chances and that was a problem

I think we had shape and a gameplan, unfortuately we defended the two goals pretty poorly and didn't keep the ball well enough in their half

Can't agree. Silva played far too deep and could not affect the tempo or forward movement.

He's not culpable, only in that in Yaya and Barry, the pass is always sideways on, everything in front of the opponents.

He drops, just as Tevez continually attempts, in a bid to break the lines.

Yaya and Barry are not the answer, much as the manager thinks otherwise.

Dzeko plays wide left, how is that supposed to be correct shape, we are doing him a great fucking diservice at present, and has been sold a lie.

According to Mancini, his signature could go on to win us the title this season. How the hell, when we neither cross, or play to him through the middle.

Richards comes out with more credit, his attitude and fitness are improved ten-fold.

Zab, who I have a lot of time for, spent most of the Kiev game gifting daft free-kicks.

It's not the defence, funnily enough, which is the problem, it's everything in front of them.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

The more I think about Mancini, the more I realise his judgement is clouded by Italian football. In Italy, it's more about power and dynamic players (Balotelli is a more explosive player limited to certain parts of the game than a consistent threat with stamina). Dzeko is another powerful player when the ball is in the box (and not when we are asking him to be Berbatov and pick up the ball anywhere on the pitch). Yaya another. Kolarov another. These players fit a certain 'type'. Silva contasts this critically, but there is too much pressure and emphasis on him being the key player all the time in that stupid system which lacks balance and shape.

An astute point, Gio. He has built a team who cannot "break" because there is no pace, and a team who cannot break down defensive sides because there is no width. The only game plan is to pass through teams. However, this is hampered hugely by the slow Italian sideways passing at the back,which keeps posession but allows the opposition to get organised. This stifles the space for the attacking players.

That's what wev've got: a team who have loads of posession but don't create enough chances. And no alternative.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

The more I think about Mancini, the more I realise his judgement is clouded by Italian football. In Italy, it's more about power and dynamic players (Balotelli is a more explosive player limited to certain parts of the game than a consistent threat with stamina). Dzeko is another powerful player when the ball is in the box (and not when we are asking him to be Berbatov and pick up the ball anywhere on the pitch). Yaya another. Kolarov another. These players fit a certain 'type'. Silva contasts this critically, but there is too much pressure and emphasis on him being the key player all the time in that stupid system which lacks balance and shape.

An astute point, Gio. He has built a team who cannot "break" because there is no pace, and a team who cannot break down defensive sides because there is no width. The only game plan is to pass through teams. However, this is hampered hugely by the slow Italian sideways passing at the back,which keeps posession but allows the opposition to get organised. This stifles the space for the attacking players.

That's what wev've got: a team who have loads of posession but don't create enough chances. And no alternative.

A.K.A - AC Milan at Spurs the other night.

 

[mcfcliam]

An astute point, Gio. He has built a team who cannot "break" because there is no pace, and a team who cannot break down defensive sides because there is no width. The only game plan is to pass through teams. However, this is hampered hugely by the slow Italian sideways passing at the back,which keeps posession but allows the opposition to get organised. This stifles the space for the attacking players.

That's what wev've got: a team who have loads of posession but don't create enough chances. And no alternative.

A.K.A - AC Milan at Spurs the other night.

and that's what I believe Mancini wants us to become, like AC Milan and so far, it's not working, and doesn't look like it will.

He needs to change it, quick, or top 4 and his job will be down the shitter.

 

[Stillsy]

Kiev aren't a top side they benefit in europe from the home matches just like the russian and ukranian teams do. Its so cold teams like us aren't used to the conditions and they punish teams at home, they will have a shock when they come to our place alnd we ram 4 past them and that isn't an exaderation either

 

[blueinsa]

Kiev aren't a top side they benefit in europe from the home matches just like the russian and ukranian teams do. Its so cold teams like us aren't used to the conditions and they punish teams at home, they will have a shock when they come to our place alnd we ram 4 past them and that isn't an exaderation either

They are a very technically competent side mate that will once again play on the break and will pose a real threat. An away goal will kill the tie off.

 

[Rammy Blue]

He has built a team who cannot "break" because there is no pace, and a team who cannot break down defensive sides because there is no width. The only game plan is to pass through teams. However, this is hampered hugely by the slow Italian sideways passing at the back,which keeps posession but allows the opposition to get organised. This stifles the space for the attacking players.

That's what wev've got: a team who have loads of posession but don't create enough chances. And no alternative.

Best summary of our problems, Dave.

I actually agree with a lot of what Failsworth Blue has said in that I thought we played ok last night, had we not given away the 2 slack goals then a 0-0 with that display would have been a very good Europa away performance.

Problem being that once we go behind everything that you say above comes to the forefront.

 

[gio's side step]

A.K.A - AC Milan at Spurs the other night.

and that's what I believe Mancini wants us to become, like AC Milan and so far, it's not working, and doesn't look like it will.

He needs to change it, quick, or top 4 and his job will be down the shitter.

I sense he is the stubborn type. Ultimately he has his blueprint and type, and everyone else, including us, will just have to sit back and watch him continue with it. What really worried me yesterday, was his pre match interview, when asked about the plan to set up. He explained that it was our intention to basically control the game in midfield (something he makes a point of regularly which is why we do have more posession but less penetration in the final 3rd), but that he 'hoped' this would work (with a chuckle). That gives weight to the accusation that he doesn't cater for a plan B, or C. His signings other than Silva, do not fill me with any sense of enthusiasm, pride or faith in progress (within the context of where we are now, not fucking 10 years ago for those who can't leave the past behind). Boateng, Kolarov, Dzeko, Balotelli. These players whilst all requiring individual critique in terms of why each has/hasn't settled, don't set the context for a belief that Mancini knows how to sign players who will be successful in THIS country. For a club in THIS country. For many fans who live in THIS country