Kompany Returns from Injury

[George Hannah]

...As for announcing the global injury situation 48 hours ahead of the game, I can see no advantage to us whatsoever. Useful for the opposition though.

it's a pick me up for depressed fans, we deserve it

 

[1961_vintage]

it's a pick me up for depressed fans, we deserve it

Good point. Though it may seem a little selfish, I would preferred Pellers' just sends me a txt update as normal rather than telling the whole world.

 

[YaYa's Left Peg]

Maybe it's a double bluff from MP, and both players are actually not fit at all. That's fooled the bastards....hehehe they'll be busy changing their plans now and bam pow on Sunday...no Kompany or Silva...oh how we'll laugh...

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Might? Seriously?

Oh he's serious alright. He doesn't rate our skipper at all, you know.

 

[Ric]

Fantastic news. Would be wonderful if he could play 70 mins or so on Sunday.

As for announcing the global injury situation 48 hours ahead of the game, I can see no advantage to us whatsoever. Useful for the opposition though.

it's a pick me up for depressed fans, we deserve it

I think it was a good idea to be honest. Confidence was pretty low amongst fans heading into this game, but having Kompany and Silva back has given everyone a lift. Hopefully the crowd will be a bit more positive tomorrow as a result.

 

[Plain Speaking]

Kane may play as he usually does, i.e to his strengths of stretching play and occupying deeper roles and running onto the ball etc.

But to disagree with Tolms bolded partbis madness. Coaches get ready for a game with one of their team accurate tactical reports of their opponents systems. Strengths, weakness, possible subs and go to men etc. Do fullbacks overlap, does a CB run from deep cunningly as he has no marker etc. For set pieces you look for fundamentals, man mark or zonal etc, then you look at who goes where typically, do they have a small man on a post, if so get a big man to attack that area etc.

This is why Pep is so acclaimed, his reports (same as Jose tbh) are what sets him apart from the 99%. Predicting an opponents move before they make it is what football is now about. We are decadedls behind the chess tacticians of Serie A but this league is getting tougher with the influx of foreign managers.

Pep and JM are renown for their meticulous analysis of the opposition and preparation before every game.

When SWP came back from Chelsea he was full of praise for JM's management, despite hardly playing.

In his early days with us, MP said something like, "we play the same way against all teams, we don't change our game to suit them, they change to play us."

Hopefully we are increasingly improving our match preparations? I was embarrassed when we played Pep's BM, and we clearly did not know what scores took us through the CL group as winners. Pep looked bemused.

I remember VK saying when we played Chelsea, "we had never been so well prepared before a game," but from the way he said it, implied that it seemed unusual?

It's great to have him back, good luck Vinnie! I am hopeful we will be well prepared for this one.

 

[OB1]

I think it was a good idea to be honest. Confidence was pretty low amongst fans heading into this game, but having Kompany and Silva back has given everyone a lift. Hopefully the crowd will be a bit more positive tomorrow as a result.

I think there are pluses and minuses to giving out this info but I would have expected Spurs to already have thought it a possibility and worked it in to their planning but they, like us, do not know for sure that he will start. Regardless of any of that, the club wants to behave in a certain way and not being straight with the media about things like this or any form of gamesmanship is probably not what they want.

I actually think that clubs should have to say in advance of games who is definitely not fit and then not be permitted to use those players i.e. who is on the injured list should be officially controlled and public information.

 

[City_Sean]

I think it was a good idea to be honest. Confidence was pretty low amongst fans heading into this game, but having Kompany and Silva back has given everyone a lift. Hopefully the crowd will be a bit more positive tomorrow as a result.

I agree, I also think with Kompany back we'll have that leadership we desperately require. We can definitely Spurs, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we did.

 

[mancity1]

I think there are pluses and minuses to giving out this info but I would have expected Spurs to already have thought it a possibility and worked it in to their planning but they, like us, do not know for sure that he will start. Regardless of any of that, the club wants to behave in a certain way and not being straight with the media about things like this or any form of gamesmanship is probably not what they want.

I actually think that clubs should have to say in advance of games who is definitely not fit and then not be permitted to use those players i.e. who is on the injured list should be officially controlled and public information.

Some players are touch and go up until match time and you can't account for things like the flu on the other side of the coin.

Invariably a player can wake up sore on the morning of a game having been ok through the final session.

Some believe that MP's lists he gives at the start of each presser as to who is out gives the other side an advantage but most sides pick their eleven that they think will do the job regardless of who might be in or out.

Presently unless he starts with youth the side picks itself because we only have 13 fit outfielders.

MDM of VK or vica versa to ease him into the game is the only consideration so there will be few surprises for us or Spurs.

As for Spurs they have only two ( really one ) player who might start in their eleven if fit unavailable so they are likely to make more than a couple if that changes to the side that has carried them in the main to six wins on the spin.

 

[bluetev]

Who Kompany defends on a set piece is frankly inconsequential. In as much as it wouldn't change what they do. It might reduce their chances of success. But that's a different matter.

Frankly that is embarrassingly wrong but it's fine coming from you, you are just a fan like us and we all are basically armchair analysts.
The worrying thing for us as a club us that pellegrini thinks similarly.

My view is its wrong to intentionally hide injury news normally, but a smart manager should do exactly that on rare occasions when it gives you a big advantage at a critical juncture.

And this was precisely such an occasion.
1. Clearly central defense, and especially demichelis lack of pace is our key weakness. By springing ottamendi / kompany at the last minute, he would completely upset their planning - nor just because that's a better pairing but also play very differently.
2. Because we are already so short, announcing Delph / sagna makes it almost completely obvious what is the team likely to be.

Does it lose us the match? No.
But it's just example of how oblivious pellegrini is to detail and minor aspects of tactics that add up.

 

[SWP's back]

I think it was a good idea to be honest. Confidence was pretty low amongst fans heading into this game, but having Kompany and Silva back has given everyone a lift. Hopefully the crowd will be a bit more positive tomorrow as a result.

Yes because annoying it at 3:15pm, an hour before kick off wouldn't have achieved that at all!

In reality it would have had a greater impact I'd imagine.

 

[SWP's back]

.

I actually think that clubs should have to say in advance of games who is definitely not fit and then not be permitted to use those players i.e. who is on the injured list should be officially controlled and public information.

Are you for real? Why? The club has a squad it can use and the players are named in that.

The team is announced an hour before kick off. Why should any club be forced to say who is playing before that?

 

[Dax777]

I think there are pluses and minuses to giving out this info but I would have expected Spurs to already have thought it a possibility and worked it in to their planning but they, like us, do not know for sure that he will start. Regardless of any of that, the club wants to behave in a certain way and not being straight with the media about things like this or any form of gamesmanship is probably not what they want.

I actually think that clubs should have to say in advance of games who is definitely not fit and then not be permitted to use those players i.e. who is on the injured list should be officially controlled and public information.

I thought this was quite obvious. But apparently not to some of our fans.

 

[Shaelumstash]

It's a good practice, coz its informative. Fans, and the press want information. This gives it to them. Not to mention it a long standing tradition.

Ferguson at some point or the
Other mighf have tot he gained an advantage from being a tosser, but for the most part, even Ferguson just gave honest injury reports. Contrary to the fable.

As for the comparison to drinking. I was making an hyperbolic point. That just because he did both, doesn't mean they have a special effect. We know drinking didn't. More so than not, neither did fudging on injuries.

You've gone too far here and got yourself in a bit of a mess again.

Giving general injury updates is indeed common practice. It helps inform fans, gives Pellegrini something to say in press conferences, and journalists something to write.

I'm guessing by the tone of your posts that you don't live in the UK, so you might be unaware how big a role the UK press plays in setting the public agenda of discussion, particularly on Sport. Ferguson was the absolute master of controlling the media and using it to his advantage. Putting pressure on opponents, opponents managers, opponents fans, referees, referee selectors, FA officials, deflecting unwanted attention from his own players, and giving certain players a confidence boost or encouragement.

Because he was so successful, and I hate to say it, so engaging and charasmatic in press conferences, journalists and newspaper editors hung on his every word. Anything he said was newsworthy. Ferguson would actually dictate the footballing agenda in the media by what he said in press conferences. That yielded huge influence. What he said got blanket coverage in the press, and in turn caused huge debate on TV, social media, in the pub, wherever. It would be naive beyond belief to think it didn't also trigger discussion among opposition managers and players.

As @tolmie's hairdoo @SWP's back and @Zin 'messiah' Zimmer have pointed out to you, Fergurson would regularly use it his advantage when the press asked him who was available. For example if Berbatov was injured for 6 weeks and back in Bulgaria, Ferguson would say he was training well and would probably start on Saturday. The opposing manager might then spend the week preparing to play a high line because Berbatov had no pace. Come the weekend, he'd play Wellbeck who had pace to burn, totally dumfounding the opposition manager, and giving his team a strategic advantage in the game.

The best example I can think of is one derby when Yaya went away for the Ivory Coast training in Paris prior to the ACN. Fergurson came out and said to the press that City were playing games with the media and he expected Yaya to play. All of the talk in the press and around football in England that week was whether Yaya would play or not. An hour before kick off the Shite's team was announced and Paul Scholes was in it. He'd retired 6 months previously. They had managed to register him again as a player without any of the press realising. Fergurson had completely deflected attention away, and all of City's preparation in the week was torn to shreds. Facing Paul Scholes was a very different prospect than facing Anderson, or Cleverley or whoever.

The issue with Pellegrini this week is no one expected Kompany and Silva to back. Everyone expected Sagna and Delph to be fit. So the team everyone thought we would start with included Delph as a left midfielder, where he's been pretty poor. With the players we have available, everyone seems to be in agreement we're going to switch from a 4231 to a 433. If Spurs thought we were going to start with a 4231, they would have prepared to flood central midfield, pressure us and outnumber us in there, like so many teams have done before. If they'd come out set up that way, and we had 3 centre mids like we are going to, it completely negates their game plan. It's advantage City, we've got the upper hand.

By releasing the information 48 hours before the game, as Tolm said, it gives Spurs bags of time to change their game plan and prepare accordingly. Advantage Spurs.

I understand where you are coming from that tactically it might not make too much difference Spurs knowing Kompany is playing 48 hours in advance, but psychologically it makes a monumental difference. If Kane went to bed on Saturday night thinking he's coming up against DeMichelis on Sunday, someone he can probably outmuscle physically and beat for pace, he's going to be confident thinking he's in for a pretty easy game. If an hour before kick off he hears Kompany is back, it would be a massive shock for him. He can't outmuscle him, can't out pace him, so it's going to have to play a very different game. The week he has spent preparing to face DeMichelis is now out of the window and he's facing the best centre half in the league. Advantage City.

It's similar to the Scholes story above. Tactically, it might not make a huge difference swapping Kompany for DeMichelis. But phychologically, it is a huge difference for the opposition facing Scholes instead of Anderson, or Kompany instead of DeMichelis.

 

[Sir peace frog]

An hour before kick off the Shite's team was announced and Paul Scholes was in it. He'd retired 6 months previously. They had managed to register him again as a player without any of the press realising. Fergurson had completely deflected attention away and paul pogba said fuck you im off :)

 

[Ric]

Yes because annoying it at 3:15pm, an hour before kick off wouldn't have achieved that at all!

In reality it would have had a greater impact I'd imagine.

Ha, yes fair point.

 

[ballinio]

How far have we sunk, worried about Spurs knowing our team ffs

 

[Dax777]

An hour before kick off the Shite's team was announced and Paul Scholes was in it. He'd retired 6 months previously. They had managed to register him again as a player without any of the press realising. Fergurson had completely deflected attention away and paul pogba said fuck you im off :)

Lol. That's what I tot when I read that.

 

[Pam]

How far have we sunk, worried about Spurs knowing our team ffs

Bloody silly thing to fret about.

 

[Dax777]

You've gone too far here and got yourself in a bit of a mess again.

Giving general injury updates is indeed common practice. It helps inform fans, gives Pellegrini something to say in press conferences, and journalists something to write.

I'm guessing by the tone of your posts that you don't live in the UK, so you might be unaware how big a role the UK press plays in setting the public agenda of discussion, particularly on Sport. Ferguson was the absolute master of controlling the media and using it to his advantage. Putting pressure on opponents, opponents managers, opponents fans, referees, referee selectors, FA officials, deflecting unwanted attention from his own players, and giving certain players a confidence boost or encouragement.

Because he was so successful, and I hate to say it, so engaging and charasmatic in press conferences, journalists and newspaper editors hung on his every word. Anything he said was newsworthy. Ferguson would actually dictate the footballing agenda in the media by what he said in press conferences. That yielded huge influence. What he said got blanket coverage in the press, and in turn caused huge debate on TV, social media, in the pub, wherever. It would be naive beyond belief to think it didn't also trigger discussion among opposition managers and players.

As @tolmie's hairdoo @SWP's back and @Zin 'messiah' Zimmer have pointed out to you, Fergurson would regularly use it his advantage when the press asked him who was available. For example if Berbatov was injured for 6 weeks and back in Bulgaria, Ferguson would say he was training well and would probably start on Saturday. The opposing manager might then spend the week preparing to play a high line because Berbatov had no pace. Come the weekend, he'd play Wellbeck who had pace to burn, totally dumfounding the opposition manager, and giving his team a strategic advantage in the game.

The best example I can think of is one derby when Yaya went away for the Ivory Coast training in Paris prior to the ACN. Fergurson came out and said to the press that City were playing games with the media and he expected Yaya to play. All of the talk in the press and around football in England that week was whether Yaya would play or not. An hour before kick off the Shite's team was announced and Paul Scholes was in it. He'd retired 6 months previously. They had managed to register him again as a player without any of the press realising. Fergurson had completely deflected attention away, and all of City's preparation in the week was torn to shreds. Facing Paul Scholes was a very different prospect than facing Anderson, or Cleverley or whoever.

The issue with Pellegrini this week is no one expected Kompany and Silva to back. Everyone expected Sagna and Delph to be fit. So the team everyone thought we would start with included Delph as a left midfielder, where he's been pretty poor. With the players we have available, everyone seems to be in agreement we're going to switch from a 4231 to a 433. If Spurs thought we were going to start with a 4231, they would have prepared to flood central midfield, pressure us and outnumber us in there, like so many teams have done before. If they'd come out set up that way, and we had 3 centre mids like we are going to, it completely negates their game plan. It's advantage City, we've got the upper hand.

By releasing the information 48 hours before the game, as Tolm said, it gives Spurs bags of time to change their game plan and prepare accordingly. Advantage Spurs.

I understand where you are coming from that tactically it might not make too much difference Spurs knowing Kompany is playing 48 hours in advance, but psychologically it makes a monumental difference. If Kane went to bed on Saturday night thinking he's coming up against DeMichelis on Sunday, someone he can probably outmuscle physically and beat for pace, he's going to be confident thinking he's in for a pretty easy game. If an hour before kick off he hears Kompany is back, it would be a massive shock for him. He can't outmuscle him, can't out pace him, so it's going to have to play a very different game. The week he has spent preparing to face DeMichelis is now out of the window and he's facing the best centre half in the league. Advantage City.

It's similar to the Scholes story above. Tactically, it might not make a huge difference swapping Kompany for DeMichelis. But phychologically, it is a huge difference for the opposition facing Scholes instead of Anderson, or Kompany instead of DeMichelis.

Again, another Ferguson irrelevancy that was incorrectly propped up as genius.

So lets examine the facts.
1. Scholes when he initially retired did so because he thought his legs were gone and wasn't as instrumental in the big games.
2. His return at City was actually advantage City. Why? Rather than facing an Impressive youngster in Pogba, we were guaranteed the dross that was a retired retuenee in Scholes

As for the game, United was up 3-0 without Scholes. By the time He finally made his debut, he quickly gave away the ball that led to our 2nd. He was the weak link for the last 20 minutes of the game

So as the facts showed, Ferguson's trickery at best had no effect and at worst hurt his team. We lost that game because of a bent ref who gave Kompany a straight red and left us with Ten men. But we almost pulled off the comeback because Ferguson dimly inserted an unfit 37 yearold into the game.

This often happens when people buy into their own hype. Ferguson clearly bought into his own hype. You do too apparently. Hence why you remember those facts so incorrectly.

A 37 yearold retiree returning after sitting out for 6 months will never scare anyone. That Ferguson, and the media, thought this was a significant masterstroke is laughable.

But then again you are right, I don't live in England and thus, I am less swayed by punditry stupidity