Lack of pace on the wings

I think it’s more a matter of movement than pace that’s our big issue. I also think our issues go way beyond the inclusion of Mahrez and Grealish and they are just convenient scapegoats.

Everyone of our players who started against Everton, bar Haaland, want to receive the ball to feet. None of them make runs to free up space for others to work in. That’s why it’s piss easy to mark our wide players out of the game.

If you look at our goal, it was Grealish’s driving run which drew players towards him which created the initial space for Mahrez. That’s what is lacking in this side, the player who creates space for others. David Silva was the master of it.

I actually think playing Jack centrally could be the solution to this. He shown at Villa that he can keep possession under pressure from multiple defenders and his dribbling ability will naturally create space for others. His best moments in a City shirt have been dribbling through the middle and creating chances.
 
oldius said:
As soon as we drop a point, this is raised. Pace is almost completely ineffective against ten man defences so the belief that it is the answer is, IMO, completely flawed. Occasionally we will drop points and it does not mean there is anything wrong with the team, the manager or the tactics - it is the game.
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The problem is how many points we have already dropped this season and more concerning the poor performances that we have put in. I can take us drawing games/ losing points if we at least play well but yesterday was atrocious.
 
oldius said:
As soon as we drop a point, this is raised. Pace is almost completely ineffective against ten man defences so the belief that it is the answer is, IMO, completely flawed. Occasionally we will drop points and it does not mean there is anything wrong with the team, the manager or the tactics - it is the game.
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It is raised every time we drop points because it’s often a problem. And I t’s raised more often this season because we’ve already dropped 12 points in 16 games.

Do that every 16 games and we’ll finish about third on 85 points.
 
I just posted this article in the media thread but it’s relevant in this thread too.

Premier League: Arsenal should be favourites to win title

It reflects the strength and historical dominance of Pep Guardiola’s team that Manchester City remain favourites to win the 2022/23 Premier League title despite trailing Arsenal by seven points as we approach the halfway stage.
www.sportinglife.com www.sportinglife.com
 
geek24601 said:
The problem is how many points we have already dropped this season and more concerning the poor performances that we have put in. I can take us drawing games/ losing points if we at least play well but yesterday was atrocious.
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Is it, win out next 3 which is more than possible we are on target for another 90 point season probably enough to win it if we don’t we don’t well done to whoever gets 90 plus points. Yesterday was far from atrocious it’s just usual forum over reacting to a game not going our way, partly a few below par performances partly the opposition coming with a plan to stop our game and rythym and executing it.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
It is raised every time we drop points because it’s often a problem. And I t’s raised more often this season because we’ve already dropped 12 points in 16 games.

Do that every 16 games and we’ll finish about third on 85 points.
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Get 85 points we’ll be in the top 2.You make it sound like 85 points is shit.It wouldn’t be quite our usual standard of the last few years but not shit and more consistent over the past few years than any other team.
Personally think we’ll be around the 90 mark.
 
blueparrot said:
Is it, win out next 3 which is more than possible we are on target for another 90 point season probably enough to win it if we don’t we don’t well done to whoever gets 90 plus points. Yesterday was far from atrocious it’s just usual forum over reacting to a game not going our way, partly a few below par performances partly the opposition coming with a plan to stop our game and rythym and executing it.
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Yeah atrocious was harsh sorry. Just long for the days when we would consistently play well at home and if teams did nick a point it was because their keeper had a stormer or total luck.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
We are completely devoid of any pace and directness when both Mahrez and Grealish play.

Opponents know neither will go down the outside because they need to chop the ball back or inside, to afford themselves that yard of space to then work in.

Ironically, our goal came yesterday because Mahrez changed the habit of a lifetime by fooling his marker and going on outside.

Sadly, like with all signings we make, we are desperate for things to work out, but I fear Jack is already proving a costly mistake.

He doesn't have the ball skills of Mahrez to beat his man and so he does look clumsy and invariably draws the foul because the first touch out of his feet isn't quick enough.

His reaction to Haaland's first goal at Leeds showed how much it meant to him, even though it was an act of unselfishness which hardly pushed the footballing boundaries, with Pep even suggesting when his head is more confident, he might take those opportunities on himself?

Jack seems a good lad and the manager and players are clearly pulling for him to come good, yet unlike other players we have, he doesn't have the versatility to thrive in other positions.

The £100m fee isn't his fault, but it is the first time I felt we have made a United-type statement signing since Bony, where the public hype train was greater than the talent on display.

Similarly, how the cult of personality created a national group think that Sterling was still operating at an elite level in his final 18 months with City.

Jack wasn't a kid when he joined us, he's had more than a year to show there is more to come, and it still isn't.

Phil is a better fit for the team on the left and even Cancelo and Palmer have shown more threat in those areas of the pitch.

We need Jack to be chipping in with eight or ten goals a season and his record doesn't suggest he has ever been that?

My ideal three would be Foden, Haaland and Alvarez, from an intensity/goal threat perspective and hopefully we get to see more of that in the coming months and in Europe.

Jack isn't going anywhere soon and earns more than most. There comes a point, however, where in the next few weeks he needs to make the ultimate step, or we need to accept City and Pep got this one wrong.

Just as Chelsea did with Lukaku. A good player, yes, but in the wrong team and environment.

I'd have loved City to have been scouting someone like Luis Diaz at £37m :(

It's why, as much as I have loved Bellingham and his energy, I even question if I'm right, in terms of his City fit?
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Nail on head.

No plasticy overreaction like Pep/ Txiki/ Laporte/ Ederson out.. just astute observations sir!

You're not the only one with Bellingham reservations.. I've questioned it since he berated his own teammates in Dortmund mid game. We have built our team on harmony.. but he seems like too strong a personality and could create factions.

And everyone loves Cancelo but he's had so many mental errors this season.. and is deservingly benched.

But mental errors seems to be a theme this season.. we've given up goals way too easily and opposition teams know they can just park the bus and hit us on the counter for 1-2 goals.

How long has it been since we managed 3 clean sheets in a row ffs?

Seems we need to fix our defensive and midfield before thinking about 100 mil pound players!

As for pace we found Rico in our academy. We have Borges and Mebude and Ndala. I know Pep doesn't think Borges is right but how about the other 2? They have be at the very least better than Sterling!
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
We are completely devoid of any pace and directness when both Mahrez and Grealish play.

Opponents know neither will go down the outside because they need to chop the ball back or inside, to afford themselves that yard of space to then work in.

Ironically, our goal came yesterday because Mahrez changed the habit of a lifetime by fooling his marker and going on outside.

Sadly, like with all signings we make, we are desperate for things to work out, but I fear Jack is already proving a costly mistake.

He doesn't have the ball skills of Mahrez to beat his man and so he does look clumsy and invariably draws the foul because the first touch out of his feet isn't quick enough.

His reaction to Haaland's first goal at Leeds showed how much it meant to him, even though it was an act of unselfishness which hardly pushed the footballing boundaries, with Pep even suggesting when his head is more confident, he might take those opportunities on himself?

Jack seems a good lad and the manager and players are clearly pulling for him to come good, yet unlike other players we have, he doesn't have the versatility to thrive in other positions.

The £100m fee isn't his fault, but it is the first time I felt we have made a United-type statement signing since Bony, where the public hype train was greater than the talent on display.

Similarly, how the cult of personality created a national group think that Sterling was still operating at an elite level in his final 18 months with City.

Jack wasn't a kid when he joined us, he's had more than a year to show there is more to come, and it still isn't.

Phil is a better fit for the team on the left and even Cancelo and Palmer have shown more threat in those areas of the pitch.

We need Jack to be chipping in with eight or ten goals a season and his record doesn't suggest he has ever been that?

My ideal three would be Foden, Haaland and Alvarez, from an intensity/goal threat perspective and hopefully we get to see more of that in the coming months and in Europe.

Jack isn't going anywhere soon and earns more than most. There comes a point, however, where in the next few weeks he needs to make the ultimate step, or we need to accept City and Pep got this one wrong.

Just as Chelsea did with Lukaku. A good player, yes, but in the wrong team and environment.

I'd have loved City to have been scouting someone like Luis Diaz at £37m :(

It's why, as much as I have loved Bellingham and his energy, I even question if I'm right, in terms of his City fit?
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Good post.

I don’t think Grealish fits our team and I’ve never thought Bellingham looks like a City player neither.

David Silva, Ilkay Gundogan, Kevin de Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, even Phil Foden who has rarely played there and Samir Nasri who Pep didn’t even fancy are all City type players in attacking midfield… but then look at Bellingham’s skill set and I reckon he’d be as out of place in our team as Grealish is.
 
Should just to back to 4-3-3, two pacy wingers and a actual left back and right back, who are actual right backs and left backs not utility players. With Haaland now here add pace on the wings and that's a devastating combination
 
Gumzy97 said:
Should just to back to 4-3-3, two pacy wingers and a actual left back and right back, who are actual right backs and left backs not utility players. With Haaland now here add pace on the wings and that's a devastating combination
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This. People keep talking too much about tactics. The way we played in 17-19 was devastating. Unless we play with quick tempo in our passing we look shite. The beauty of having Sane and Sterling was they was a constant threat in behind. We’ve completely lost that now
 
Blue Feather said:
They're not always that deep and in the main we just fail to do it, maybe that's why we're linked so heavily with Leao......
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In the games teams don’t sit deep we don’t struggle to score though. Games like yesterday though when teams do sit with a deep back 8 there is no space for these fast pacy wingers to get in behind. When teams come out we usually win just that about 12 or more teams realise this and set up like everton did usually we still win yesterday we didn’t, every season there are games we don’t , Palace , Southampton last season spring to mind, still won the league though.
 
Craig said:
To a point i agree it’s difficult to use pace against packed defences. However, it’s really important to stretch the pitch and move the ball quickly that’s what us and Pep’s Barca were great at. We stretch the pitch now to wingers who slow the play down and come inside narrowing the pitch. Even more bizarre without fullbacks who overlap.
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I find myself agreeing with both yourself and 'Oldius'! Let me explain..

It was former Blue Jack ('Father of Dutch Football') Reynolds who, after WWII, created the blueprint for the Netherlands' style of play which initially led to the amazing Cruyff World Cup squad of 1974 and since to subsequent iterations of the Dutch team. This, as we know, was implanted into the set up at Barcelona, culminating in Pep's genius take on the 'system', which (I believe) he's taken to even greater heights with what he's done here at City, revolutionising both the English and World games as he's done so.

Reynolds was interviewed about his style, his system in Holland and he said 'We ignore the wings at our peril'. This was his explanation for having wide men hugging the touchline, to stretch play and create space for driving, attacking midfielders.

Now, this can be achieved with speed merchants like, say Sane or Sterling, or else with otherwise gifted players without such electric pace, eg Mahrez, Grealish or Foden.

But ideally the squad should contain both types, to enable changes/variation during games when the system/style 'isn't working'. Sadly, we don't have the speed merchant alternatives in the squad at the moment, something which could do with being addressed.

And as you say, the reintroduction of Walker and Cancelo to give Mahrez, Grealish and Foden the overlapping option could be crucial for the rest of the season and, indeed, until we address that lack of wide pace (most likely) in the transfer market.
 
Blu3m00n91 said:
This. People keep talking too much about tactics. The way we played in 17-19 was devastating. Unless we play with quick tempo in our passing we look shite. The beauty of having Sane and Sterling was they was a constant threat in behind. We’ve completely lost that now
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Don’t you think opposition coaches saw what we saw even MOTD highlighted it and changed their tactics, the deep block became a thing against it, that space between the 6 yard box and edge of the are one wide man burst into and cut across to the other isn’t there anymore and hasn’t been since that one season. If it was don’t you think Pep would have continued using it.
 
blueparrot said:
Don’t you think opposition coaches saw what we saw even MOTD highlighted it and changed their tactics, the deep block became a thing against it, that space between the 6 yard box and edge of the are one wide man burst into and cut across to the other isn’t there anymore and hasn’t been since that one season. If it was don’t you think Pep would have continued using it.
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I think Pep changed cause of our fuck ups in the champions league maybe but I don’t think the style of play was the issue. This season except United and a couple others we haven’t played well at all. We’re far too slow
 
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