Le Tour 2018

leighton said:
His legacy is tared mate he is the modern day Armstrong it will all come out. Team Sky are corrupted mate. Wiggins and the jiffy bag and Froome. Sky were all about Marginal gains but its all bullshit. They have been killing everyone in sight. I look at guys who were with Sky in the past as soon as they leave them they dont preform to the standard they were at sky. Mikel Landa has gone away and he is now struggling in the high mountains last year he was Froomes main go to guy when he was struggling. Sky are like every other team in the tour dodgy as fuck but they are getting away with a lot.
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such a downer of a view. I agree there are some aspects to what has surrounded SKY that calls Brailsford's conduct into question but do you not think that the guys who towed Froome to the top of cols and the sprint finishes who were also tested would have provided positive tests? Fact is nothing has been proven - ever thought that Landa is at a team where the training isn't as good and the guys surrounding him likewise? You think every team is doping? Why watch FFS?
 
bluethrunthru said:
such a downer of a view. I agree there are some aspects to what has surrounded SKY that calls Brailsford's conduct into question but do you not think that the guys who towed Froome to the top of cols and the sprint finishes who were also tested would have provided positive tests? Fact is nothing has been proven - ever thought that Landa is at a team where the training isn't as good and the guys surrounding him likewise? You think every team is doping? Why watch FFS?
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I have watched the tour for the past 20 odd years if not more i love the drama of it always have been and the characters involved. Marco Pantani , Lance the biggest cheat of the lot and to the modern day cyclists. We all know its not a clean sport deep down. No man can keep that sort of level of riding the amounts they do on the tour if they aint taking stuff. IF pro cycling was just to say yes we cant clean the sport up just leave them to it i be like cool everyone is on something its a more level playing field.
 
leighton said:
I have watched the tour for the past 20 odd years if not more i love the drama of it always have been and the characters involved. Marco Pantani , Lance the biggest cheat of the lot and to the modern day cyclists. We all know its not a clean sport deep down. No man can keep that sort of level of riding the amounts they do on the tour if they aint taking stuff. IF pro cycling was just to say yes we cant clean the sport up just leave them to it i be like cool everyone is on something its a more level playing field.
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Behave - can any professional sport claim to be clean? Name me one?

Pantani - Armstrong, Contador, Valverde and Moreau all have one thing in common that Froome doesn't. They were found guilty of doping.

The finger of suspicion has been pointed at City for being such runaway winner of the league last year was as a result of doping - most notably on rag caff. Would you apply the same criteria there ? Froome and others are guilty as a result of accusation - are we also guilty of doping as a result of accusation?
 
bluethrunthru said:
Behave - can any professional sport claim to be clean? Name me one?

Pantani - Armstrong, Contador, Valverde and Moreau all have one thing in common that Froome doesn't. They were found guilty of doping.

The finger of suspicion has been pointed at City for being such runaway winner of the league last year was as a result of doping - most notably on rag caff. Would you apply the same criteria there ? Froome and others are guilty as a result of accusation - are we also guilty of doping as a result of accusation?
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Armstrong never failed a single dope test. Ever.
 
leighton said:
His legacy is tared mate he is the modern day Armstrong it will all come out. Team Sky are corrupted mate. Wiggins and the jiffy bag and Froome. Sky were all about Marginal gains but its all bullshit. They have been killing everyone in sight. I look at guys who were with Sky in the past as soon as they leave them they dont preform to the standard they were at sky. Mikel Landa has gone away and he is now struggling in the high mountains last year he was Froomes main go to guy when he was struggling. Sky are like every other team in the tour dodgy as fuck but they are getting away with a lot.
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Mikel Landa has gone to be a main man in another team when he was a support rider at Sky. It is a completely different game when you do not have the same team support. Look at how much energy is conserved being in a peloton compared to on your own. Sky ride for their main men so that they conserve as much energy as possible for the climbs. No team matches them. When others have a single support rider, Sky have two or three that do all the work and control the pace.

The reason sky are so good has nothing to do with cheating. The scrutiny around cycling is huge. The decision has been made that Froome was not doping. Why then claim he was. For me the Wiggins results were more suspect but again he has not been found guilty of doping. The press sell more papers by making it a scandal. Don't believe all you read, the system is in place to check these things and you have to believe their verdict. Otherwise don't bother watching cycling and don't bother commenting. Froome has done the vuelta and giro as well as le tour...that is incredible stamina and it is no surprise he struggled. He has cracked before and come back. I still wouldn't write him off just yet.
 
leighton said:
His legacy is tared mate he is the modern day Armstrong it will all come out. Team Sky are corrupted mate. Wiggins and the jiffy bag and Froome. Sky were all about Marginal gains but its all bullshit. They have been killing everyone in sight. I look at guys who were with Sky in the past as soon as they leave them they dont preform to the standard they were at sky. Mikel Landa has gone away and he is now struggling in the high mountains last year he was Froomes main go to guy when he was struggling. Sky are like every other team in the tour dodgy as fuck but they are getting away with a lot.
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This is way off the mark. Leaders of the GT racers are tested every day. So Froome has been tested pretty much every day of racing for his last 3 big tours and 4 TDFs and far more than any other rider. The issue with salbutamol was ultimately dropped however the fact he was being investigated was leaked. Any other rider could have faced the same issue and we wouldn't know and there may be many in the TDF peloton in that position. So there is very little basis to the idea that Sky are getting away with things that others aren't - if anything they are facing the highest level of scrutiny and there are clearly elements within pro cycling working against them. I can back that up by the attempts of the TDF organizers trying to pressure him not to ride even though he had every right to and the fact the tour peloton is full of riders who have far worse on their records who ride without question and others in the past who have ridden the TDF with investigations for far worse hanging over them again without question.
 
bluethrunthru said:
you do accept he was doping of course?
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Absolutely, 100%, up to the gills. But he was tested and tested and tested. All negative. Yes, he failed on in Tour de Suisse, but a bit of chicanery (and a post-race TUE) he was declared "clean". My point is one about testing. The cheats are always one step ahead of the testers.
As for Froome / Sky and their dominance I genuinely don't know if they're clean or not. They changed the mindset of all pro teams, the marginal gains etc. Everyone laughed at riders getting on the rollers after 6 hours in the saddle, but now they all do it. Nutrition, aerodynamics, all of it, Sky have been at the forefront of gains. But the Wiggins saga leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. I gave up wondering about drugs in cycling a long time ago. It used to be amphetamine, then cortisone, then steroids, then the biggest game-changer of the lot, EPO, so I think I've just accepted the whole caboodle may be done "under the influence". I have no evidence at all, other than history tells us cycling has never been clean. Ever. Especially in the biggest race of them all. It doesn't detract from what G and Froome have achieved. Both are incredible athletes. As are all pro-cyclists.
I will add this - Greg Lemond, 100% clean. A freak of nature, lungs like a zeppelin.
And this: this tour's not over. Froome could still nail it tomorrow, Dumoulin could take 2mins in the TT, if G has "un jour sans".
 
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