Lescott [Merged]

[auction294]

Darker shade of BlueHow can you ' consistantly ' punch above your weight m8 ?
Can't you accept that we are where we are and are there because we are at the right level ?

This isn't a 90's Everton team , just like it isn't a 2nd division City team .
Teams get better , and Everton are not punching above their weight anymore .

...because in my view of the past few seasons you have achieved a final league position which is better than the teams ability. The league table doesn't lie, but in this case I truly believe Everton have punched above their weight and are a top ten to five team, rather than a top five team. If you recall, Everton got off to a fairly sluggish start the past couple of seasons, and the some sections of fans were quite vociferous in their criticism of Moyes. Had this poor run manifested itself a little further then confidence which is the key may have been affected. You could have quite easily found yourselves in mid table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.

 

[alera]

Ethhu and Benjani wont be at the club come start of the season. IF they are they wont get in the 24 man squad they will be in the reserves !

Yobo and Yakubu. What about Jakielka missing most of the season with Cruciate injury ? Or Arteta and Yakubu comming back from career threatening injuries ans still not properly fit ?

Saha as always will miss over half the season with injury ! We loose two players we have excellent cover for and you think we have a problem !

...because in my view of the past few seasons you have achieved a final league position which is better than the teams ability.

THis absolutely the case. They have relied on 1 - 0 wins, good organisation and the teams around them being shit rather than the actual team being of a good standard. It can only get you so far watch what happens this season !

 

[Darker shade of Blue]

Darker shade of BlueHow can you ' consistantly ' punch above your weight m8 ?
Can't you accept that we are where we are and are there because we are at the right level ?

This isn't a 90's Everton team , just like it isn't a 2nd division City team .
Teams get better , and Everton are not punching above their weight anymore .

...because in my view of the past few seasons you have achieved a final league position which is better than the teams ability. The league table doesn't lie, but in this case I truly believe Everton have punched above their weight and are a top ten to five team, rather than a top five team. If you recall, Everton got off to a fairly sluggish start the past couple of seasons, and the some sections of fans were quite vociferous in their criticism of Moyes. Had this poor run manifested itself a little further then confidence which is the key may have been affected. You could have quite easily found yourselves in mid table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.

Could that not be said of City whilst in a relegation place mid season ?
When you win a title 5 times , would you be punching above your weight ? Why is it when you consistantly finish in the top section that the tag still applies ? Banter aside , it's time to give Everton a little credit and respect for their achievements , rather than think of them as over achieving .

 

[Eggsy]

Hi, another everton fan here swamping your board. Hopefully I won't come accross an arsehole as some fellow blues appear to in this thread. In their defense I think were all just a bit fed up of seeing you lot spending bucket loads whilst we sit here twiddling our thumbs and pressing F5 every 5 mins on news now. It's been another grim summer and were all a bit sick of it really.
I love everton first but I love football second so I like to visit other football forums every now and again to get their different views on players from their own team and other teams. I always find it amusing how other fans portray our club and players as Im sure you do. Only coming on here did I learn that Onouha was so liked. Seems like you really hold high hopes for him, I have never really noticed him that much but that's probably because I dont watch him that much.

On to Lescott, as many have said I think it will all come down to him. If he wants to go Im sure he'll let/has let Moyes know and we will then sort out a fee. I dont think he'd hand in a transfer request though, I THINK he has too much class to do that to a club that has done a lot for him and would rather sort it out with Moyes quietly.
Personally Id rather keep Lescott unless you offered absolute silly money like £25-30 mill. If we sell him for £20 mill we are left having to find not only a replacement but also cover for left back. Plus the fact that Moyes probably wouldn't see all that money.
If you wonder whether your getting value for money, do you think your getting value for money with Toure? If so then your definately going to get it with Lescott unless it goes above £25 mil. Lescott really is very good, his first 2 seasons with us he was outstanding. He had an iffy few months at the beginning of last season but once him and Jags got their act together they were superb. That's another point, not only would we be losing a great defender but also a great partnership, the likes of which can be hard to forge again. I really do hope this second rejection makes you look elsewhere but unfortunately I think you'll eventually get him. I cant blame him that much either, he and the squad have put so much effort in over the last few years getting us where we are only for it all to count to very little. Pretty soon the likes of yourselves, spurs and villa will overtake us unless Kenwright pulls his finger out his arse.

Look at it from an objective standpoint, do you really feel Lescott is worth £25m? When you consider Tevez and Adebayor cost £25m? And that Xabi Alonso is valued at £25m by Real Madrid? Kolo Toure cost us (if reports are to be believed) £16m, ok he's a little older and had less time left on his contract, but is Lescott really worth £9m more?

I'd suggest not.

No he isn't and we should not allow ourselves to be held to ransom, if we have a valuation for a player in this case £18Million, and it is not acceptable, then move on and look at another target, or eveyone will play us at that game.

 

[wrongun73]

...because in my view of the past few seasons you have achieved a final league position which is better than the teams ability. The league table doesn't lie, but in this case I truly believe Everton have punched above their weight and are a top ten to five team, rather than a top five team. If you recall, Everton got off to a fairly sluggish start the past couple of seasons, and the some sections of fans were quite vociferous in their criticism of Moyes. Had this poor run manifested itself a little further then confidence which is the key may have been affected. You could have quite easily found yourselves in mid table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.

Could that not be said of City whilst in a relegation place mid season ?
When you win a title 5 times , would you be punching above your weight ? Why is it when you consistantly finish in the top section that the tag still applies ? Banter aside , it's time to give Everton a little credit and respect for their achievements , rather than think of them as over achieving .

i agree with you there DSOB...BUT i think there is going to come a time where, because moyes never seems to strengthen that much in pre season, where it will come back to haunt you. everyone knows that in the premiership you have to be pemenantly adding to the squad to progress.

 

[Matty]

Could that not be said of City whilst in a relegation place mid season ?
When you win a title 5 times , would you be punching above your weight ? Why is it when you consistantly finish in the top section that the tag still applies ? Banter aside , it's time to give Everton a little credit and respect for their achievements , rather than think of them as over achieving .

It will always look like over acheieving when you spend less than your competitors yet still match/out perform them. People view your squad, which isn't exactly overflowing with household names and high profile players and wonder "how are they in 5th?", "They surely must be over-achieving".

That's a little harsh, but there is an element of truth to it. You can't consistently perform above your abilities so there's no doubt Everton are a good side, but a huge amount of the credit for that comes down to Moyes. He seems to be able to motivate the players and drag more from them than you would expect. If/when Moyes goes (I wouldn't be surprised in the future to see him manage one of the old firm, of potentially even the rags) Everton will be in a spot of bother. I can't see whoever the replacement is being the same type of manager, I'm not talking talent I'm talking method. He'll have his own style and it most likely won't fit with the current setup. It's at that point that I'd expect Everton to take a drop, the players won't be performing at their current exceptionally high standards (in comparison to their actual abilities), they will decrease based on Moyes' influence/tactics being gone.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that Everton have been playing at 95% for the last 3 or 4 seasons, and have been in 5th place (or thereabouts). Spurs, Villa, West Ham, City haven't, in any given season, reached 95%, they've done so for short spurts, but not for the long haul. A 95% from Spurs, Villa or City (certainly City now anyway) would be better than a 95% from Everton. Everton have deserved their 5th places based on consistency but their absolute max in terms of ability/performance is lower than Spurs, Villa and City's absolute max. Everton just reach that max (or close to it) more often.

 

[alera]

I cant see anyway Everton will finish 5th again this season. Top 4 was and always has been out of the question. If they finish 6th it will be a miracle with what they have to work with.

Spurs have a decent manager and are bringing in some good players they finished 5th twice in the league in the last 3 or 4 seasons. I expect them to be up there with us. If Villa can strengthen (They obviously have some money to spend) I think they will be stronger than Everton as well.

Their is stability at City and SPurs this season which we have not had for the last few years really plus the unbdoubted strength of our squads. Its also a big advantage not having to play in the EUropa 2 bob cup, although I expect Moyes to field weakened sides and get knocked out early as last season.

WHen you look at Evertons first squad theire is virtually no strength and depth its even smaller than last season and full of young inexperienced players for cover.

IF they get the same sort of injury problems they had last season they could easily end up mid table.

 

[paul_blue]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?Neville_hits_out_at_Citys_pursuit_of_Lescott&in_article_id=712101&in_page_id=43" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/a ... page_id=43</a>

MUPPET!!

 

[@BluePhil8]

...because in my view of the past few seasons you have achieved a final league position which is better than the teams ability. The league table doesn't lie, but in this case I truly believe Everton have punched above their weight and are a top ten to five team, rather than a top five team. If you recall, Everton got off to a fairly sluggish start the past couple of seasons, and the some sections of fans were quite vociferous in their criticism of Moyes. Had this poor run manifested itself a little further then confidence which is the key may have been affected. You could have quite easily found yourselves in mid table mediocrity for the remainder of the season.

Could that not be said of City whilst in a relegation place mid season ?
When you win a title 5 times , would you be punching above your weight ? Why is it when you consistantly finish in the top section that the tag still applies ? Banter aside , it's time to give Everton a little credit and respect for their achievements , rather than think of them as over achieving .

which are what exactly? am i correct in thinking that you have won jack all in the 21st century?

 

[Darker shade of Blue]

Could that not be said of City whilst in a relegation place mid season ?
When you win a title 5 times , would you be punching above your weight ? Why is it when you consistantly finish in the top section that the tag still applies ? Banter aside , it's time to give Everton a little credit and respect for their achievements , rather than think of them as over achieving .

i agree with you there DSOB...BUT i think there is going to come a time where, because moyes never seems to strengthen that much in pre season, where it will come back to haunt you. everyone knows that in the premiership you have to be pemenantly adding to the squad to progress.

Yes , I believe that to be true .
So far , we've managed to turn very little into something special , and yes , it won't always work , especially when other teams can afford to buy a finished article , whilst we tend to find potential and develop it .
The problem with developing potential is that it takes time , and often , by the time number 10 becomes wonderful , number 3 has reached 30 and is on the slidy slope .

Getting them all at the top of their game at the same time takes investment . We need 4 or 5 players who can come in at the top of their game , and make us 100% , as opposed to having to wait for them .

Still , the transfer window has a long time to run , and we will probably get some new faces in fairly soon . Again , it just depends on whether they will be ready .... or not .