Let the bodies pile high.

[The Future’s Blue!]

But you said that the plan was to let Covid run through the community and that was "literally what we've done" when that is simply not true. If it was then the same has happened across the globe (based on the data being reported), and bear in mind that many countries are under-reporting the figures - the UK seem to be close to the excess deaths figures - so your comment doesn't fit this thread which is designed to criticise the government.

Do I think the government shouldn't be criticised? No, definitely not. They're wank, like most have been recently.

I don’t get you? Are you saying that we didn’t let it run through the community, even with all the current information that is public knowledge? Locking down late, opening up early, followed by massive u-turns whilst dumping the elderly into the hands of the Grim Reeper.

Now we have info on Johnson from an insider who basically said ‘Pile Them High’, as per the thread thread title, and you believe we did everything in our power to prevent deaths?

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

I don’t get you? Are you saying that we didn’t let it run through the community, even with all the current information that is public knowledge? Locking down late, opening up early, followed by massive u-turns whilst dumping the elderly into the hands of the Grim Reeper.

Now we have info on Johnson from an insider who basically said ‘Pile Them High’, as per the thread thread title, and you believe we did everything in our power to prevent deaths?

In reply to your first paragragh, there were certainly lots of mistakes made early on but this was largely attributable to not having enough equipment and beds to cope with the first wave. The severity of the contagiousness and the effects of catching it were still being understood at that stage, it's easy to look back and wonder why we didn't just close our borders like other countries did but advice from the WHO and EU was not to (until mid March), but that would have been the best way to limit transmission in the early days. The discharge of elderly patients not being tested was down to the pressures on the NHS needing to find beds and removing what are known as 'bed-blockers' was their only way. Whether the government (or individuals in there) knew that they weren't being tested, but were told they were, is a matter for discussion. In the end, the hospitals are responsible for ensuring people aren't discharged with a contagious disease and I'm sure doctors would have ensured they weren't, knowing what they do now. I can only assume then that at that point they didn't know the full risks or were forced at gunpoint to do so (of which I'm sure we'd have heard). Again, this mistake was also repeated in other countries.

The issue about when to lock down and re-open afterwards, again, that's a tough one. There were/are pressures from sides to do opposing actions. Whatever Johnson says in a meeting is irrelevant - it's whatever policies are put in place. And in any case, trusting the word of a liar's liar (especially one tasked with strategy and planning) seems a touch risky. Remember this is a man who knows how to concoct a lie then believe it's true when it leaves his mouth. He knows that to be able to convince people of something you first have to convince yourself.

Cummings: Vote Leave slogan drove Remainers crazy because it was true

The former Downing Street aide also said it was ‘perfectly reasonable’ to argue that Brexit was a mistake.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[johnnytapia]

In reply to your first paragragh, there were certainly lots of mistakes made early on but this was largely attributable to not having enough equipment and beds to cope with the first wave. The severity of the contagiousness and the effects of catching it were still being understood at that stage, it's easy to look back and wonder why we didn't just close our borders like other countries did but advice from the WHO and EU was not to (until mid March), but that would have been the best way to limit transmission in the early days. The discharge of elderly patients not being tested was down to the pressures on the NHS needing to find beds and removing what are known as 'bed-blockers' was their only way. Whether the government (or individuals in there) knew that they weren't being tested, but were told they were, is a matter for discussion. In the end, the hospitals are responsible for ensuring people aren't discharged with a contagious disease and I'm sure doctors would have ensured they weren't, knowing what they do now. I can only assume then that at that point they didn't know the full risks or were forced at gunpoint to do so (of which I'm sure we'd have heard). Again, this mistake was also repeated in other countries.

The issue about when to lock down and re-open afterwards, again, that's a tough one. There were/are pressures from sides to do opposing actions. Whatever Johnson says in a meeting is irrelevant - it's whatever policies are put in place. And in any case, trusting the word of a liar's liar (especially one tasked with strategy and planning) seems a touch risky. Remember this is a man who knows how to concoct a lie then believe it's true when it leaves his mouth. He knows that to be able to convince people of something you first have to convince yourself.

Cummings: Vote Leave slogan drove Remainers crazy because it was true

The former Downing Street aide also said it was ‘perfectly reasonable’ to argue that Brexit was a mistake.

www.standard.co.uk

Who would be the person(s) responsible for that lack of equipment and beds?

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Who would be the person(s) responsible for that lack of equipment and beds?

With beds, then governments that have allowed the numbers to fall steadily year on year from 1987 (apart from a steady period 2000 - 2005). Regarding equipment, I don't know for certain, but the governments that didn't take seriously the predictions of worldwide pandemics.

Neither beds/wards nor equipment can be created in very short notice.

 

[mat]

I see that the BBC are running with the ''Immigrants Problem'' rather than Cummings interview.


Tory mouthpiece

Sky News as well. Apart from a throwaway remark from an on message Tory.


This cabinet would have happily let the virus kill more as a political weapon. It would have taken out many of their none voters and sped up the privatisation of the NHS even faster than what they have been doing whilst ironically using Covid as a cover.

Johnson's quote should be his macabre legacy.

 

[metalblue]

Sky News as well. Apart from a throwaway remark from an on message Tory.


This cabinet would have happily let the virus kill more as a political weapon. It would have taken out many of their none voters and sped up the privatisation of the NHS even faster than what they have been doing whilst ironically using Covid as a cover.

Johnson's quote should be his macabre legacy.

You can’t seriously believe that!

If Labour stopped repeating verbatim their core messages “your life is shit, vote for us” and “the NHS is up for sale, unless you vote for us” they may stand a chance of getting in to power one day. People can see it for the bollocks it is, and are bored hearing it for the last 50 years, when they can see with their own eyes that their life isn’t that bad and the NHS is still there.

In other news I watched that “Uprising” on bbc last night. Fuck me what a reflection of 70s Britain, I wasn’t very old so can’t really remember it, the interview with Thatcher when she basically sided with the NF was horrendous. Then a few weeks later slagged then off, too late love you’ve been found out!! Worth a watch.

 

[bobmcfc]

All these 80 year olds who have exceeded life expectancy should just hurry up and shuffle off as they are a drain on society ??

Imagine them thinking this is the time they can put their feet up in life and enjoy the finer things after being born during the second world war or before. Living under rations, air raids, perhaps never seeing their dads, brother, uncles ever again then having to rebuild the country after it all ended. Working all hours, doing your bit. Hell no, think they've sacrificed enough for the rest of us.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

All these 80 year olds who have exceeded life expectancy should just hurry up and shuffle off as they are a drain on society ??

Imagine them thinking this is the time they can put their feet up in life and enjoy the finer things after being born during the second world war or before. Living under rations, air raids, perhaps never seeing their dads, brother, uncles ever again then having to rebuild the country after it all ended. Working all hours, doing your bit. Hell no, think they've sacrificed enough for the rest of us.

Turkeys voting for Christmas.

How Britain voted in the 2019 general election | YouGov

YouGov conducts one of Britain's biggest ever post-election surveys to chart how the nation's political character is shifting

yougov.co.uk

 

[BlueAnorak]

Turkey's voting for Christmas.

How Britain voted in the 2019 general election | YouGov

YouGov conducts one of Britain's biggest ever post-election surveys to chart how the nation's political character is shifting

yougov.co.uk

Been true for 30 years. The changeover point doesnt move much with time either. People grow up and release whose money Labur uses when they promise the moon on a stick.

 

[bluenova]

In reply to your first paragragh, there were certainly lots of mistakes made early on but this was largely attributable to not having enough equipment and beds to cope with the first wave. The severity of the contagiousness and the effects of catching it were still being understood at that stage, it's easy to look back and wonder why we didn't just close our borders like other countries did but advice from the WHO and EU was not to (until mid March), but that would have been the best way to limit transmission in the early days. The discharge of elderly patients not being tested was down to the pressures on the NHS needing to find beds and removing what are known as 'bed-blockers' was their only way. Whether the government (or individuals in there) knew that they weren't being tested, but were told they were, is a matter for discussion. In the end, the hospitals are responsible for ensuring people aren't discharged with a contagious disease and I'm sure doctors would have ensured they weren't, knowing what they do now. I can only assume then that at that point they didn't know the full risks or were forced at gunpoint to do so (of which I'm sure we'd have heard). Again, this mistake was also repeated in other countries.

The issue about when to lock down and re-open afterwards, again, that's a tough one. There were/are pressures from sides to do opposing actions. Whatever Johnson says in a meeting is irrelevant - it's whatever policies are put in place. And in any case, trusting the word of a liar's liar (especially one tasked with strategy and planning) seems a touch risky. Remember this is a man who knows how to concoct a lie then believe it's true when it leaves his mouth. He knows that to be able to convince people of something you first have to convince yourself.

Cummings: Vote Leave slogan drove Remainers crazy because it was true

The former Downing Street aide also said it was ‘perfectly reasonable’ to argue that Brexit was a mistake.

www.standard.co.uk

You don't need hindsight. If you read the exposes in the Times, which have chronicled how and when decisions were made, there were numerous delays when the govt knew enough to act.

Every other party in Parliament was asking for action well before it was taken. The "it's been a very difficult time, and we did everything we could, knowing what we did at the time" is the line that the Tories have decided to avoid any discussion.