Liverpool (A) Post Match Thread

The Salah dive has received quite a bit of coverage over the last few days, not just us City fans. I hope that puts the seed of doubt in referees minds when he goes looking for penalties.
 
Chris in London said:
For me it's worth discussing because it's part of a wider argument. The wider argument is 'it was a foul, so a penalty was the right decision, but if player X hadn't gone down like he'd been shot he wouldn't have got the decision. So that justifies the swan dive because it's the only way he gets the penalty he should get anyway.'

I can understand that argument, even if I'm not sure I agree with it. But whilst that may or may not be generally acceptable, outright cheating is not. On Sunday Salah threw himself on the floor following a contact that he had initiated. That is cheating. I have seen many blues say 'yes it was a penalty' and it isn't moaning to ask someone to justify that. There's no more point in saying 'it was a penalty' than there is in saying 'it wasn't'. It was given, they scored it, we gave them a fucking good hiding anyway.

But there is a difference between a player - arguably like Sterling in the first half - who got fouled and made no attempt to stay on his feet and a player who dives. This is a player who didn't make the most of a foul, he dived after first pushing Dias. That's cheating, and it isn't moaning to point that out.

But it might be nitpicking ;)
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Bang on the money.

Like you, I accept the 'argument' that, for example, 'Richard the Ref' based his assessment on this penalty incident. But also like you I get absolutely pi**ed off watching games this past couple of decades in which such incidents abound in ever increasing numbers. It isn't solely when City are affected by such incidents, it spoils watching any game, whichever team benefits or loses from them.

Pundits don't make it any better, too, with their mangling of the English language to justify either (a) a particular decision or (b) their inability (refusal?) to call out anyone clearly guilty of cheating, especially the usual suspects who are getting away with this behaviour time and time again, to the detriment of not just their immediate opponent but also to the wider game as a whole. It double pi**ses me off to hear the likes of Shearer, Hoddle, Wright et al rolling out the tired cliches when a defender raises an arm such as, 'He's given the ref. no choice but to give it there..', 'He's won his team a penalty there..'

It's a physical contact sport (or supposed to be). In this case, Salah hands off Dias before he returns the favour in raising his arm. Dias is concentrating on getting the ball (like we were all coached to do so when we were kids.. although I accept that was in the days of 'jumpers for goalposts and nothing but a firm, manly handshake when having scored a goal..') and tries to retrieve the ball. Salah knows he may be beaten to it by the covering Stones. Of the two protagonists in this scenario, which one performs a starfish jump and falls to the ground? Which one 'cheats'? Not Dias.

And as you say elsewhere I think, why can the original handoff by the attacker not be deemed a foul? Then again, FIFA/UEFA are the sporting bodies that have given us these past two years the cock-eyed situation which is if the ball comes off an attacker's arm without intent prior to a goal being scored, then it's 'no goal' whereas if it does the same from a defender, then it's not a penalty. So maybe it's completely logical and ok then..

The amount of cheating in penalty areas that has been allowed to creep into the game over the past 2-3 decades is shocking and, like the tackle from behind and other things that have been outlawed, should be dealt with too. It's spoiling the game for everyone and the sooner the authorities start calling it out and clamp down on it, the better. But I'm not going to hold my breath..
 
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johnevans said:
Bang on the money.

Like you, I accept the 'argument' that, for example, 'Richard the Ref' based his assessment on this penalty incident. But also like you I get absolutely pi**ed off watching games this past couple of decades in which such incidents abound in ever increasing numbers. It isn't solely when City are affected by such incidents, it spoils watching any game, whichever team benefits or loses from them.

Pundits don't make it any better, too, with their mangling of the English language to justify either (a) a particular decision or (b) their inability (refusal?) to call out anyone clearly guilty of cheating, especially the usual suspects who are getting away with this behaviour time and time again, to the detriment of not just their immediate opponent but also to the wider game as a whole. It double pi**ses me off to hear the likes of Shearer, Hoddle, Wright et al rolling out the tired cliches when a defender raises an arm such as, 'He's given the ref. no choice but to give it there..', 'He's won his team a penalty there..'

It's a physical contact sport (or supposed to be). In this case, Salah hands off Dias before he returns the favour in raising his arm. Dias is concentrating on getting the ball (like we were all coached to do so when we were kids.. although I accept that was in the days of 'jumpers for goalposts and nothing but a firm, manly handshake when having scored a goal..') and tries to retrieve the ball. Salah knows he may be beaten to it by the covering Stones. Of the two protagonists in this scenario, which one performs a starfish jump and falls to the ground? Which one 'cheats'? Not Dias.

And as you say elsewhere I think, why can the original handoff by the attacker not be deemed a foul? Then again, FIFA/UEFA are the sporting bodies that have given us these past two years the cock-eyed situation which is if the ball comes off an attacker's arm without intent prior to a goal being scored, then it's 'no goal' whereas if it does the same from a defender, then it's not a penalty. So maybe it's completely logical and ok then..

The amount of cheating in penalty areas that has been allowed to creep into the game over the past 2-3 decades is shocking and, like the tackle from behind and other things that have been outlawed, should be dealt with too. It's spoiling the game for everyone and the sooner the authorities start calling it out and clamp down on it, the better. But I'm not going to hold my breath..
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It's all down to shit referee's, they have var now and not one player has been booked for diving this season as far as I know. It's like the surrounding of referee's it went on for years and still does, at one time they tried to legislate against that, no need the ref has a card in his pocket if four or five players surround you in an aggressive manner book them all, it could be stamped out in two weeks, same with diving.
 
paulchapo said:
Just hearing Klopp's mother's funeral was yesterday, respect to him for keeping it quiet and doing his job, it must have been tough.
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Now I feel bad for giving him shit this past few days.

It's really shitty he can't even return home for the funeral. Condolences to him and his family.
 
johnevans said:
Bang on the money.

Like you, I accept the 'argument' that, for example, 'Richard the Ref' based his assessment on this penalty incident. But also like you I get absolutely pi**ed off watching games this past couple of decades in which such incidents abound in ever increasing numbers. It isn't solely when City are affected by such incidents, it spoils watching any game, whichever team benefits or loses from them.

Pundits don't make it any better, too, with their mangling of the English language to justify either (a) a particular decision or (b) their inability (refusal?) to call out anyone clearly guilty of cheating, especially the usual suspects who are getting away with this behaviour time and time again, to the detriment of not just their immediate opponent but also to the wider game as a whole. It double pi**ses me off to hear the likes of Shearer, Hoddle, Wright et al rolling out the tired cliches when a defender raises an arm such as, 'He's given the ref. no choice but to give it there..', 'He's won his team a penalty there..'

It's a physical contact sport (or supposed to be). In this case, Salah hands off Dias before he returns the favour in raising his arm. Dias is concentrating on getting the ball (like we were all coached to do so when we were kids.. although I accept that was in the days of 'jumpers for goalposts and nothing but a firm, manly handshake when having scored a goal..') and tries to retrieve the ball. Salah knows he may be beaten to it by the covering Stones. Of the two protagonists in this scenario, which one performs a starfish jump and falls to the ground? Which one 'cheats'? Not Dias.

And as you say elsewhere I think, why can the original handoff by the attacker not be deemed a foul? Then again, FIFA/UEFA are the sporting bodies that have given us these past two years the cock-eyed situation which is if the ball comes off an attacker's arm without intent prior to a goal being scored, then it's 'no goal' whereas if it does the same from a defender, then it's not a penalty. So maybe it's completely logical and ok then..

The amount of cheating in penalty areas that has been allowed to creep into the game over the past 2-3 decades is shocking and, like the tackle from behind and other things that have been outlawed, should be dealt with too. It's spoiling the game for everyone and the sooner the authorities start calling it out and clamp down on it, the better. But I'm not going to hold my breath..
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Said it before, its become acceptable in the game when commentators and ex footballing pundits use terms like 'he bought it' or ' he didn't make contact but the defender shouldn't have made the challenge'.
That and Riley overseeing the biggest drop in refereeing standards in my lifetime - and I'm getting on!
 
Academica said:
It's all down to shit referee's, they have var now and not one player has been booked for diving this season as far as I know. It's like the surrounding of referee's it went on for years and still does, at one time they tried to legislate against that, no need the ref has a card in his pocket if four or five players surround you in an aggressive manner book them all, it could be stamped out in two weeks, same with diving.
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Trouble is they keep skirting around important issues like these and instead fanny around with Laws of the Game that were working fine as they were. Indeed may well have worked even better with the benefit of VAR. The current offside & handball laws are confusing and mainly lacking in common sense to the extent that Managers, Players and fans are continually complaining about them. In addition, what was the point of allowing the ball to be passed backwards at KO and goal kicks to be played & received inside the penalty area?
Meanwhile blatant diving & manhandling at corners is constantly being ignored by the powers that be and referees.
 
Burtonblue said:
I believe you’re allowed to nominate a temporary goalkeeper in these events as long as you inform the officials at the time.
Kyle Walker wouldn’t be a bad choice.
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Not correct. You can't nominate a temporary goalkeeper if your regular goalkeeper goes to take a penalty.
 
StillBluessinceHydeRoad said:
I remember "Trent" handling blatantly last season and we never saw any VAR intervention.... We're still waiting for the VAR films of Stones's offside goal on Sunday. Still Liverpool are entitled to favourable treatment - "it means more."
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It irritates the fuck out of me that this guy has somehow been elevated to the level of being known just by his first name.

I can just about live with Elton John and Ringo Starr, and Yaya had the excuse of having a brother in the same team. But where did "Trent" come from as though he's some sort of national treasure?
 
Chris in London said:
But the pull is immediately preceded by Salah fending Dias off. Isn’t Dias entitled to clear his arm out of the way? If the contact on Salah is enough for a penalty, why isn’t the prior contact on Dias enough for a free kick?
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The Future is Blue said:
Bollox.....you've come on here trying to justify a blatant dive by saying any contact means a penalty....Salah gave the ref a decision to make not Dias.....if he'd stayed on his feet no penalty! By your reasoning on every corner there should be a penalty as it's like all in wrestling.....you need to be given the weekend off along with Dean and Mason and go to specsavers!
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Take the blinkers off lad. Have said all along that he dived but Dias gave him the opportunity to do so. If that happened at the other end and we were not awarded a penalty you would be full of hell. If you had read the whole thread I have said it is not right that pens are not given if a player does not go down. In this case I think it was a pen.
If you can provide a direct quote from me saying any contact in the box is a penalty I would be happy to concede.Yet again, someone uses the corner argument when it has no relation to this incident.
 
richardtheref said:
Take the blinkers off lad. Have said all along that he dived but Dias gave him the opportunity to do so. If that happened at the other end and we were not awarded a penalty you would be full of hell. If you had read the whole thread I have said it is not right that pens are not given if a player does not go down. In this case I think it was a pen.
If you can provide a direct quote from me saying any contact in the box is a penalty I would be happy to concede.Yet again, someone uses the corner argument when it has no relation to this incident.
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Richard you quoted my post without replying to it. Was this accidental?

:)
 
Gingers Dad said:
Where do you ref Richard? Because I'm betting that you would never give that as penalty
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Penalty all day mate. I reffed in the
Gingers Dad said:
Where do you ref Richard? Because I'm betting that you would never give that as penalty
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Used to ref in the National League North, EDS & Womens Championship up until 2 years ago. I would give that all day long no matter what level it was at. Some people on here need to remove the blinkers. How would you have reacted if this happened down the other end and nowt was awarded??
 
Paladin said:
Not correct. You can't nominate a temporary goalkeeper if your regular goalkeeper goes to take a penalty.
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You can swap keeper with outfield player as long as it is during a stoppage. So in this instance, you would tell the ref Ederson is coming out of goal & Walker is going in. They would have to change shirts obviously. Once Ederson scores you tell the ref that they are swapping back or if Ederson misses/saved at next stoppage.
 
richardtheref said:
It was Chris. Technical problems my end. I might know the laws of the game but nowt about computers
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Now you've seen it could you respond to Chris in London's point. Is it only a foul if the defender touches the forward not the other way round?


richardtheref said:
It was Chris. Technical problems my end. I might know the laws of the game but nowt about computers
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