Liverpool bus damaged on journey back from Etihad Stadium today

Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm sure some chanting it do believe it's about Hillsborough sadly but I'm equally sure, as we've seen on here, that many don't.

In the Jewish religion, the laws and commandments as originally documented in the Five Books of the OT are generally quite high-level. As a result, there's a whole body of learned opinions on the practical requirements of observing those laws. One sentence in the Book of Exodus or Leviticus can easily generate dozens of volumes setting out the author's views on what constitutes strict observance of what seems to be the most arcane and trivial matters. And other authorities may have a different view.

As a result, the laws cover behaviours where try to eliminate situations where there's even the most infinitesimal chance of transgression, and even beyond that. So the prohibition on mixing milk and meat (from the sentence "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk" has been extended to chicken (but not fish, oddly). There is absolutely zero chance of that happening but the claim is there's a risk that someone might confuse a piece of chicken with a piece of meat. Let's be honest, who among us hasn't confused a chicken breast with a leg of lamb at some point? It's quite bizarre but there's also rules about how long you can leave it between consuming meat and milk.

On the same basis, if there's a chance that it could be linked to Hillsborough (and let's face it, there's still too many who do feel Liverpool fans were somehow to blame, even on this forum), then let's not sing it.

Will we get the same respect and tolerance from them? Highly unlikely but we'll have done the right thing and at least we'll have some moral high ground when we don't.
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Agreed
Its a strange idea to confirm in song and in public that you are sadist.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You can’t really know what is in folks mind but certainly I would have thought the majority of non Liverpool football fans don‘t link it to Hillsbourogh, rather the behaviour of Liverpool fans and to an extent club in more recent times. My point was I don’t believe most Liverpool fans think it’s linked to Hillsborough either but claim it is.
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well said
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm sure some chanting it do believe it's about Hillsborough sadly but I'm equally sure, as we've seen on here, that many don't.

In the Jewish religion, the laws and commandments as originally documented in the Five Books of the OT are generally quite high-level. As a result, there's a whole body of learned opinions on the practical requirements of observing those laws. One sentence in the Book of Exodus or Leviticus can easily generate dozens of volumes setting out the author's views on what constitutes strict observance of what seems to be the most arcane and trivial matters. And other authorities may have a different view.

As a result, the laws cover behaviours where try to eliminate situations where there's even the most infinitesimal chance of transgression, and even beyond that. So the prohibition on mixing milk and meat (from the sentence "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk" has been extended to chicken (but not fish, oddly). There is absolutely zero chance of that happening but the claim is there's a risk that someone might confuse a piece of chicken with a piece of meat. Let's be honest, who among us hasn't confused a chicken breast with a leg of lamb at some point? It's quite bizarre but there's also rules about how long you can leave it between consuming meat and milk.

On the same basis, if there's a chance that it could be linked to Hillsborough (and let's face it, there's still too many who do feel Liverpool fans were somehow to blame, even on this forum), then let's not sing it.

Will we get the same respect and tolerance from them? Highly unlikely but we'll have done the right thing and at least we'll have some moral high ground when we don't.
Click to expand...

I remember watching an interview on Granada reports with a relative of somebody who died at Hillsborough when this blew up a while back. She said her and other relatives considered it about Hillsborough as the chant mentioned victims. They were indeed innocent victims who died going to watch a game of football. As they were at first blamed for their own deaths and injuries, it's reasonable to see how always the victims never to blame could be viewed that way by them. I'd say for the majority who sing it they don't.

As we seem to have been on the end of Liverpool fans violent behaviour recently we could tweak this song accordingly, like so, "WE'RE always the victims, YOU'RE never to blame." If they really want it to stop though they have to understand what has prompted it's singing and own it. Admit their fans have been guilty of some unacceptable and violent incidents when playing us and add that perhaps they haven't dealt with them as well as they could have. That would be a huge step in the right direction. Actually banning and/or prosecuting some of the offender's would be another.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You can’t really know what is in folks mind but certainly I would have thought the majority of non Liverpool football fans don‘t link it to Hillsbourogh, rather the behaviour of Liverpool fans and to an extent club in more recent times. My point was I don’t believe most Liverpool fans think it’s linked to Hillsborough either but claim it is.
Click to expand...

I think most would associate it with Hillsborough to be honest, given when it was originally sung too. That and the language of using victims in it. Most of the justification I see from people that do sing it I don’t think really equates to using that.

For some people, knowing that it does offend them is part of the reason they will sing it in the first place too.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Or to put it more bluntly. It's just a fucking football chant.

But once you open the doors to the CPS deciding which football chants are hate crimes, you are buggered. And the whingers will win. Again and again.
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Football chants have and will always be self policed. I was stood next to a group of young early 20s scally types in the concourse at Old Trafford this year. And one started a Munich chant off. The others all sort of gave him a “you sure?” kind of look and he soon tailed it off, looking a bit embarrassed. I’ve absolute no doubt that just a few years ago, they would have all heartedly joined in.

Same as “ Just a town full of P***s” That was commonplace in City away ends a number of years ago. If anyone tried that now, I’ve no doubt they’d be instantly shut down.

Football fans these days, generally speaking, know the boundaries between banter and taking things too far.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm sure some chanting it do believe it's about Hillsborough sadly but I'm equally sure, as we've seen on here, that many don't.

In the Jewish religion, the laws and commandments as originally documented in the Five Books of the OT are generally quite high-level. As a result, there's a whole body of learned opinions on the practical requirements of observing those laws. One sentence in the Book of Exodus or Leviticus can easily generate dozens of volumes setting out the author's views on what constitutes strict observance of what seems to be the most arcane and trivial matters. And other authorities may have a different view.

As a result, the laws cover behaviours where try to eliminate situations where there's even the most infinitesimal chance of transgression, and even beyond that. So the prohibition on mixing milk and meat (from the sentence "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk" has been extended to chicken (but not fish, oddly). There is absolutely zero chance of that happening but the claim is there's a risk that someone might confuse a piece of chicken with a piece of meat. Let's be honest, who among us hasn't confused a chicken breast with a leg of lamb at some point? It's quite bizarre but there's also rules about how long you can leave it between consuming meat and milk.

On the same basis, if there's a chance that it could be linked to Hillsborough (and let's face it, there's still too many who do feel Liverpool fans were somehow to blame, even on this forum), then let's not sing it.

Will we get the same respect and tolerance from them? Highly unlikely but we'll have done the right thing and at least we'll have some moral high ground when we don't.
Click to expand...
Personally I've never linked the chant to the Hillsborough disaster, I always thought it was about the mickeys in general, you're right though it can be linked and shouldn't be sang anymore.
 
Jesus H Gabz said:
Ermmm probably not the best idea, he has a very extensive cctv system and is a former high ranking police officer, I’ll stick to hanging my City flag from the tree
Click to expand...
If he worked for Murkysnide Police you'll be fine.
They couldn't identify a single rat responsible for bricking our coach despite having the whole incident caught on film and fingerprints of the rats available to them from their own vehicles that were used as a vantage point to launch missiles.
 
Such a strange bunch them lot.

None of them would report a child killer for months and it eventually took one very brave person to do so.

However if you tweet things they disagree with and they grass to your employers. (Not happened to me but seen it happen to a few blues.).
 
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