Liverpool bus damaged on journey back from Etihad Stadium today

[Sid C]

Lot of good this thread’s done, that fucking chant has been popping in head for the last 24 hours.

 

[paulchapo]

Both excellent posts.

As Blue Mist said, theres no grey areas with them. If I didn't condemn it, then I was effectively condoning it. And that's another part of it I find offensive. There's no middle ground you can find an element of agreement with them on.

I've bent over backwards to understand their point of view but they don't give an inch from their entrenched position, with no consideration or acknowledgment of the alternative view. This guy wasn't prepared to contemplate the view that people sing it while fully understanding the issues around Hillsborough and being fully in their camp on the matter.

His unwavering view was that everyone singing it blamed Liverpool fans for the events and mocking the victims. And that's typical. No one on their side seems to be prepared to engage in an open-minded debate.

And, as my learned friend @gordondaviesmoustache has pointed out, that's a large part of the problem. If I was someone like Spirit of Shankly chair Joe Blott, or the clunks media team, I'd be looking to sit down with other clubs, their fan groups and local media to explain calmly the background and accept that many see it and sing it as having no connotation with Hillsborough. Then explain united fans' use of it and thr publication of the HIP report and how those events could be seen to be linked.

People might have sympathy with that view, if they were treated as intelligent and mature, rather than being insulted by demands from a group they see as entitled and arrogant.

The general consensus of opinion by many, myself included, is this.

Nothing we, or any other club, sporting body, government or police force do or say will ever be enough for that self entitled arrogant football club and fanbase. Nothing. Zilch, zero, nada. We and many others have tried and had it thrown back in ours and their faces.

They stand on a podium of hypocrisy lecturing everybody else about morality and standards of behaviour while showing none of their own. That podium is made up of countless lies and crimes, ranging from hacking to murder, whether they want to deny that ever happened or not, it happened. Aided and abetted by a complicit media, like a religious cult, there is no way but the Liverpool way and we must all pay homage to it or pay the price. Well sorry to burst their bubble but we don't, nor will we.

Our club, being in a difficult position, might have to say what they think is the right thing. We don't, we say ( And sing) what we KNOW is the right thing. It's a view held by every other set of fans in England also, as they too call out the Liverpool club and fanbase for what they are. The media and that club need to take off the blinkers and see what everybody else sees. Then they need to start doing some apologising of their own and learn some humility. Once they do then we can talk about building bridges. I won't hold my breath.

 

[jrb]

those last 3 pictures are pre Hilsborough tbf so irrelevent ttlo the present opinion of the club and fans.

plus Liverpool was always a tory/liberal voting city up untill the mid 80s, the romanticism and myrh they created during the councils millitant tendancy period and the dockers strike, led to them becomig a lot more pro-labour locally and nationally, the scouse not english thing is a quite modern day thing too.

Pictures of the 83/84 team with thatcher has no impact or conection on post 89 Liverpool and the chants in question

The scen game yeah pretty hypocritical of them

though I would say they are firmly an establishment club and as such treated with a cannot do wrong attitude by the media

The point being, even during the Thatcher years LFC didn't distance itself from Thatcher and the Conservatives.

And as late as 2006, Liverpool fans and Scousers were still happy to hold up a mozaic of the England flag on the Kop.

So when exactly did the faux English establishment outrage start at Liverpool and why?

One thing the Scousers never mentioned. Liverpool City Council has been just as coupable as any other political establishment at destroying Liverpool after decades of political mismanagement, continued mistakes, alleged bribery, and alleged law breaking.

 

[Dirty Harry]

And they’ll claim any new song is a direct descendant of ATV etc, as well as any wording used in it, for most it’s about their own moral compass being brought into question, and empowering the scousers, as well as holding them to account for their gigantic rap sheet, if I sang it I’d know the reasons behind it (too many to mention) and it isn’t connected to Hillsborough. The sheer fact they have weaponised the term ‘stadium disasters’ means Heysel is out of bounds also, what next ? Words/terminology being scrubbed from the Oxford dictionary

I see you’ve met as many of the red gobshites as I have, they’ll be loving all this.

 

[york away to this!]

May have been mentioned, though there was a scouser on radio 5 yesterday afternoon saying that, although he "understands" that some folk say ATV is about matters other than Hillsborough (he failed to reveal what those were, of course), the song reminds people of the events at Hillsborough - and is therefore offensive.

So it could be argued that a seemingly deliberate misinterpretation to create offense is acceptable?

No wonder we were fined by uefa for singing "you're not incredible" at Hulk...

 

[Saddleworth2]

His unwavering view was that everyone singing it blamed Liverpool fans for the events and mocking the victims. And that's typical. No one on their side seems to be prepared to engage in an open-minded debate.

But that would mean a level of agreement that the chant isn’t about Hillsborough. They already know it isn’t but claim it is.

 

[mancityvstoke]

He's only a poor little scouser.................

 

[jrb]

He's only a poor little scouser.................

So I hit him with brick…..

 

[mancityvstoke]

So I hit him with a brick…..

Now we are in trouble

 

[jrb]

Now we are in trouble

And now he doesn’t sing anymore.