Liverpool bus damaged on journey back from Etihad Stadium today

[carlosthejackal]

Having thought long and hard about this issue since Saturday evening and slept on it , they can go and fuck themselves , self righteous wankers .

 

[halfcenturyup]

I wouldn't throw anything, I assume you wouldn't, most fans would prefer nothing being thrown etc etc. That's beyond debate.
The question is, why the need to be so quick off the mark to appease that lot of all people. The "condemning" of those singing is ridiculous, undermining, totally unnecessary and serves only to embolden them and their self pesecutory sense of injustice.

You have another view.

I suppose the thinking was that getting the statement in before the press can report it would be better than Liverpool's pet press men raising it for them. Probably for the best.

Anyone know how the club found out about it so quickly? From Liverpool? The police? Or was it an inside job all along? :O

 

[Bantamgaz]

Brick or no brick an object thrown at the coach or not do you really believe that had this not happened that them jolly rats will welcome you to Anfield with open arms ????? Will they Fook there scum and it’s about time that they got what they deserved back ............they get away with everything and the world are supposed to stand back and let it happen because the cowards within the media are shit scared to report what there fans are really like
Imagine had your coach turned up at say Millwall and that would have happened do you think the media would have reported it the same ?????
Not a chance they would have been condemned throughout the media for it a rightly so but no when it comes to that lot it gets reported as nothing to really see here

 

[Dodge]

I wouldn't throw anything, I assume you wouldn't, most fans would prefer nothing being thrown etc etc. That's beyond debate.
The question is, why the need to be so quick off the mark to appease that lot of all people. The "condemning" of those singing is ridiculous, undermining, totally unnecessary and serves only to embolden them and their self pesecutory sense of injustice.

You have another view.

@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Media thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E20.1 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E20.1 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E20.1 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E20.1 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E20.1.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Liverpool post match thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E21 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E21 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E21 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E21 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E21.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.

What are the sanctions?
Perhaps us the fans could do with a Paul Harris to fight our corner and explain legally that it isn't an offensive chant - at least not what they want it to be offensive about - that is the insult - to us.

But - thanks for taking the time to go someway to explaining civilly.
Appreciated.

 

[CityWest]

2 rocks were thrown by 2 x lads probably aged around 12 y/o from an opening in the railings on Ashton old Road between the CD mini Market and the traffic lights. One hit, one missed. Shattered outer skin on 1st passenger side window. Kids ran off into the estate. No other football related foot traffic left at this point.

 

[Dodge]

What are the sanctions?
Perhaps us the fans could do with a Paul Harris to fight our corner and explain legally that it isn't an offensive chant - at least not what they want it to be offensive about - that is the insult - to us.

But - thanks for taking the time to go someway to explaining civilly.
Appreciated.

Sanctions include fines, stand closures, partial stadium closures, even the full ground.

If any sanctions were applied it would effectively mean that our SAS team had failed in their duty to protect the Club from such actions. It's a no win situation for us as supporters, the SAS team and our Directors. We just have to suck it up and take it, however painful that is for ALL of us.

LFC have successfully tied everyone in knots and can use it to fulfil their own ends.

Go figure.

 

[west didsblue]

@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Media thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E21 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E21 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E21 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E21 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E21.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.

Thanks for that.

I think we need to think up a new chant. No point getting punished for that.

 

[Dodge]

I suppose the thinking was that getting the statement in before the press can report it would be better than Liverpool's pet press men raising it for them. Probably for the best.

Anyone know how the club found out about it so quickly? From Liverpool? The police? Or was it an inside job all along? :O

The club Safety & Security Manager was notified by his counterpart at Liverpool reference the coach "attack".
The "chant" statement was issued at the behest of our own SAS team, for the reasons I've posted above and in no small way, for the reasons you have given in your post.

 

[Gray]

How about:-

You’re never at fault
You’re never at fault
Fucking Scousers
You’re never at fault

 

[west didsblue]

The club Safety & Security Manager was notified by his counterpart at Liverpool reference the coach "attack".
The "chant" statement was issued at the behest of our own SAS team, for the reasons I've posted above and in no small way, for the reasons you have given in your post.

I think it would be helpful if the club made it clear to fans about the chant next time we play them, and that it is the FA that have made the determination that it counts as offensive, not anyone else.

 

[halfcenturyup]

The club Safety & Security Manager was notified by his counterpart at Liverpool reference the coach "attack".
The "chant" statement was issued at the behest of our own SAS team, for the reasons I've posted above and in no small way, for the reasons you have given in your post.

Fair enough, and thanks for that. Probably an example of how it should work then, rather than Liverpool calling up the press with photos of damage.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

What are the sanctions?
Perhaps us the fans could do with a Paul Harris to fight our corner and explain legally that it isn't an offensive chant - at least not what they want it to be offensive about - that is the insult - to us.

But - thanks for taking the time to go someway to explaining civilly.
Appreciated.

An offensive chant is determined by how those that are targeted by it feel, not by the people using the words. Yes they have misunderstood the context (and I think they are now purposely using it to their advantage) but we're banging our heads against a brick wall trying to argue it now the authorities have judged the way they have. That battle is lost in my view but getting that message across will take time and the song will be sung and we'll revisit this over and over for years yet.

 

[Eccles Blue]

I suppose the thinking was that getting the statement in before the press can report it would be better than Liverpool's pet press men raising it for them. Probably for the best.

Anyone know how the club found out about it so quickly? From Liverpool? The police? Or was it an inside job all along? :O

When our supporters coach was ‘attacked’ a few years ago I had a call from the club at 11.30pm that night to check that I was ok and asked what happened. I’m not sure how they got to know, in fact never really thought about that, was just grateful for the concern.
You have me intrigued now as to how they knew about the weekend one! Of course social media has taken off a lot more now as well.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

An offensive chant is determined by how those that are targeted by it feel, not by the people using the words. Yes they have misunderstood the context (and I think they are now purposely using it to their advantage) but we're banging our heads against a brick wall trying to argue it now the authorities have judged the way they have. That battle is lost in my view but getting that message across will take time and the song will be sung and we'll revisit this over and over for years yet.

I feel devastated when we get "have you won the European Cup?" sung at us ; -(

Does that count?

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Still makes us look like scrotes

Surely you’ve experienced our fanbase over the decades? We’ve got scrotes, scallies and nutters galore. We’re no diffident to most other fanbases, most are exactly the same. There are just a few who play in red who attract every villages’ idiots to support one, the other or the third who are on another level of twattish to the rest.

 

[eastmanc]

An offensive chant is determined by how those that are targeted by it feel, not by the people using the words. Yes they have misunderstood the context (and I think they are now purposely using it to their advantage) but we're banging our heads against a brick wall trying to argue it now the authorities have judged the way they have. That battle is lost in my view but getting that message across will take time and the song will be sung and we'll revisit this over and over for years yet.

I think we can all agree that the chant is not about Hillsborough which some in the press and certain Liverpool forums are insinuating .

 

[5 Hit Gibbon]

I feel devastated when we get "have you won the European Cup?" sung at us ; -(

Does that count?

I was startled by it!

The club really need to provide a safe space, no one should go to a football match and leave the ground startled!

 

[roach3]

So the scousers are re writing premier league rules? lol

Maybe there will be a uk top 20 banned chant charts.

With all of em being about the ferals

Wonder why that is.

Lets face it they just dont like being reminded by fans of every club what a bunch of disgusting
self righteous cunts they are and the terrible acts they have demonstrated over the years.

I do feel a bit sorry for genuine liverpool fans and i know quite a few who will forever be tarnished
by the continuing legacy of their feral fans behaviour.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

An offensive chant is determined by how those that are targeted by it feel, not by the people using the words. Yes they have misunderstood the context (and I think they are now purposely using it to their advantage) but we're banging our heads against a brick wall trying to argue it now the authorities have judged the way they have. That battle is lost in my view but getting that message across will take time and the song will be sung and we'll revisit this over and over for years yet.

Nobody has the right to tell me what I mean when words come out of my own mouth.

I know exactly what I mean when I chant ‘always the victims, it’s never your fault’, and Hillsborough doesn’t even come into the equation. Nobody else can tell me it means something else when I know it doesn’t.