Liverpool - post match thread.

[Prestwich_Blue]

I would rather have been with him than against him in this league over the last 5/6 years. Not a big stats man as it can be quite misleading at times. Are we talking over his whole time as a City player when he has been absent we have gained more points on average? I'm not convinced either of our titles would have been won with another striker in his place.

I've posted the relevant stats in the Aguero thread, which is the right place for this conversation. They indicate fairly conclusively that we win more without him, the implication being that we play more as a team.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I'm falling between two stools here because I essentially agree with what you're saying. I have massive issues when we are talking about systems that apparently can't accomodate world class players. But the key point is that rightly or wrongly, Pep is our manager and he does things his way. I think it is fair to say that many people at the club are obsessed with him so he isn't going to get the bullet or be told he has to play to the strengths of the players he has. So it is utterly futile at this point to say that Pep should do this or do that, the reality of the situation is that Pep will do what he likes and if certain players don't suit Pep then they will be the ones who go whether they are world class or not.

I can think of only one other club held hostage by its manager......Arsenal.

 

[Chi-town blues]

Runs work rate has gone to another level the year..he has adapted to what Pep wants and improved his work rate....yesterday had nothing to do with Kun...its all on Peps shoulders and people just cant admit this to themselves......certianl players didnt play well but the whole team was set up wrongly and that is down to the manager and no one else.....Kdb was absolutely appalling but some on here seem to have a hard on for wanting Kun gone.....(no idea why)

Spot on.
Credit to dippers. They had a game plan and they executed well. Choked us in front of their back four .
Kun had no service. He made those few runs over his shoulder but run and pass was tad late . Other than that he had to deal with high ball with tall defenders around him.

 

[leewill31]

I'm falling between two stools here because I essentially agree with what you're saying. I have massive issues when we are talking about systems that apparently can't accomodate world class players. But the key point is that rightly or wrongly, Pep is our manager and he does things his way. I think it is fair to say that many people at the club are obsessed with him so he isn't going to get the bullet or be told he has to play to the strengths of the players he has. So it is utterly futile at this point to say that Pep should do this or do that, the reality of the situation is that Pep will do what he likes and if certain players don't suit Pep then they will be the ones who go whether they are world class or not.

I am all for Pep to carry on with how he wants the team to play the reality is that certain players can not or wont adapt to his style and tactics we all know that we need fresh blood to come in and play his way.

He is a firm believer in what he wants and how he wants it so i dont agree with some that he should change to suit as at least 4-5 players he has available wont be here come next season and he needs to implement his way from the start for the players that are here for the long term.

 

[IcriedwhenTueartleft]

He wasn't too slow to get back though, he was back, and got in a good position before the cross, he just didn't watch the scorer as he then let him back in front of him, it was nothing to do with his pace, but his poor defending.

However as I asked last night, where were the 2 CB's in that move, and how did they manage to get the ball through our midfield, from right corner to left corner of the pitch, to Lallana with such ease for the cross, and where was the challenge on the cross ? Kolarovs part in the goal was certainly poor, but most of the team played some part in how crap it was.

We are so easily bypassed at times, that you can almost call a goal when the ball is still in the opposition final third, once we give it away. Its a team thing not an individual thing, yes he should have done better with the pass from Yaya, and certainly with a challenge on the guy who scored, but there is more to it than just Kolarov's input.

Yep, that is spot on.....it has happened so many times this season it is becoming astonishing, we just don't seem to be learning......

 

[kaz7]

I've posted the relevant stats in the Aguero thread, which is the right place for this conversation. They indicate fairly conclusively that we win more without him, the implication being that we play more as a team.

You left out 11/12

 

[simon23]

I'm falling between two stools here because I essentially agree with what you're saying. I have massive issues when we are talking about systems that apparently can't accomodate world class players. But the key point is that rightly or wrongly, Pep is our manager and he does things his way. I think it is fair to say that many people at the club are obsessed with him so he isn't going to get the bullet or be told he has to play to the strengths of the players he has. So it is utterly futile at this point to say that Pep should do this or do that, the reality of the situation is that Pep will do what he likes and if certain players don't suit Pep then they will be the ones who go whether they are world class or not.

Let me first be clear on something (I have said this so many times now but I just want to clarify it.....I do not want Pep gone and I said a few weeks ago regardless of results I would want him here for life)

Pep doing what he wants will be obvious but I think that could be said of any manager.

But what Pep should want is to win (Im sure he does)...but at the moment against the better opposition he isn't proving that he is the best tactician in the game.....

I don't mind the losing part but losing in a way that is some predictable even the week or so before isn't ok.

Players move on - i get that but while they are here the best manager in the world should be showing just that....getting the best out of them - and that isn't happening by a long shot

I will give you a balanced argument here so you can see I am genuine in what i say

I really dislike Kolarov as a footballer....I think he is an absolute liability and charlatan in every single way on a football pitch and have thought that since his arrival...he has never convinced me once in his whole time here whereas with Kun, Yaya, Silva, Kdb etc they are the best players I have every seen

But NONE of these players are playing anywhere near their potential ...Now with he exception of the enigma that is yaya (who has to be fair given it a real go at using his energy levels and fitness) all these players when played in the right way are capable of more....but pep due to what he wants has got them all (amongst others) under performing as part of a team....ervn ferandihnio has started to cut a very frustrated figure

so is the problem with he players of the manager.....I would say its the manager who needs to do something different....

If you can only play with a certain type of player are you really deserving of the title of best tactical manager in the world? (I know Pep hasn't given himself the this title but its what he is touted as)

 

[BAB.DAB]

the sum of those parts also yesterday included KDB who was by far worse, Yaya and Kolarov who for 3 years has been shit consistently and cant do his basic job of defending

so while you may have a narrative against Kun because some people refuse to blame Pep and his appealing (and predictable) set up to certain games you are also ignoring others that just aren't performing regularly

Don't see the point in blaming players who are out of contact in the summer and will be replaced as for kolarvo he will be replaced too I blamed pep for the draw with Middlesbrough his substitutios cost us a win my problem with Kun is his passing ball retention decision making not good enough for a player with his ability needs to improve these simple things

 

[sir baconface]

Sadly, for some posters Aguero is becoming the new Hart.

 

[SWP's back]

One ban was deserved...the other i don't think so

its got to such a level of failue to see or even denial with some fans that pep has got it wrong that some are now suggesting/intimating that Kun gets himself banned deliberately so he can have a break......Im sorry but this is just absolutely laughable.......its denial cause the other alternative which is at least much more plausible is that at present Pep is getting his team set up wrong and its not getting the best out of all the players (Kun and everyone else)

He's still been banned for 7 games this season and he's not performing well at the moment. The majority of his goals came at the start of the season and he is missing chance after chance.

That's not Pep's fault.

It's strange you can't accept that Kun isn't in great form at the moment. Although it's cute you giving a team and saying that your team would have done better than Peps. Even with hindsight it's a stretch.

There wasn't too much wrong with the set up yesterday as the second half showed. They didn't run through us or rout us. We lost due to a shite free kick and a great cross and header.

But I'd still play ageuro and let him play himself back into form. I'm re buying him for my fantasy team as I'm sure he will.

 

[Blue Mooner]

That's the thing about yesterday, in that you can look at it from a number of different angles and come to entirely different conclusions. I simply don't agree with your assertion that we controlled it however. Liverpool allowed us to have the ball and sat back knowing we were essentially toothless. So you could equally say they controlled it. You could say we controlled the second half against Leicester but did we really? We certainly had more of the ball consistently in the second half but was there a time that you thought "It's just a matter of time before we score?" because I didn't.

I totally disagree with the notion that the team who doesn't have the ball has control of a game, but that's just my opinion.

I'm really struggling with the idea that losing control of the football is in any way a good thing. In fact, it frustrates the hell out of me when City get a goal and then go on the defensive, far sooner that you keep control of the ball and go and get the second to kill the game off.

It's small teams that get a goal up and then defend for their lives which is essentially what Liverpool did. I took that a massive complement but made the result even more frustrating as I know we are a better team than Liverpool.

 

[Dax777]

That was the last point in a conversation i was having with another poster......where we were saying what could have been done differently.......I think those changes would have made a difference to the result and that is the team i would ave put out and asked them to do certain things (at least in the first half)

Sorry, I read the last few pages only. Didn't read the whole thread.

I think our aging players are generally not as good as they used to be, but we don't want to see it yet.

Yaya (we all know he isn't as good as he once was)

Silva (Some of us realize he isn't what he used to be, others wait till he has a dominant game to supposedly rub it in our faces. Not realizing the joke is on them. Silva used to be good every game. Now he is good in every other 4th or 5th game.

Fernandihno: Yep even bMr Consistent is beginning to show his age. Energy Levels have dropped a notch.

Aguero: I am worried he has lost form, and he might have a hard time getting it back.

DeBryune: The inconsistent results are becoming worrying. But he has age in his side.

The fullbacks: All are 2 old.

The Captain: Is crocked and has been for 3 years running.


This is not a team challenging for titles. It's one struggling to make top 4.

The only sad part is there is no Pelegrini to blame.

 

[Adlab123]

We are all Blues on here and therefore are biased one way or another in our views. Me included.
Just back from walking the dogs and chatting with a mate an ex Sunderland player. He said our problem in his opinion, is we are trying to walk the ball in and opponents just sit back. He said any decent team will combat this most of the time. On yesterdays game he thought we were just the better team but no end product. Also thinks tbe goalie doesnt inspire the defence. Agree or not this guy played at the top level and currently coaches semi-pros.
Lets hope for 4 or 5 tomorrow

 

[The-Dogs-Pollocks]

And most of that transformation from one half to the next was about work rate and general intensity. It stopped the counter attacks and put Arsenal on the back foot. We need to stop thinking it is ok to only flick that switch when things are going tits up though IMO. We start games terribly too often at the moment and I assume that is about attitude.

At the start of the season our intensity from kick off was good and we bossed utd at the swamp in the first half then dropped off after the damage was done. Not sure if its fitness or attitude. But it needs sorting.

 

[BAB.DAB]

Kdb was dreadful yesterday.....

Kun was at least holding the ball up and bringing in sterling at times....Kdb couldn't hit a 5 yd pass yesterday

Kun was caught offside few times but this happens....Im not sure its a reason why he should be sold though as some are suggesting........(Im being slightly sarcastic btw but its seems to be a small part of an argument being put forward)

the problem lies in what Pep is asking the whole team to do.......they cant do it against teams that play in certina high energy styles.....Yaya...constantly getting robbed of the ball.....kdb as well......kolarov getting forward so far that he cant get back (how many times does Pep have to see this before he changes it?????)

Pep will change it in the summer

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I can think of only one other club held hostage by its manager......Arsenal.

I said to my son a couple of weeks ago that Txiki and Soriano came in determined to turn us into Barca but so far they are just turning us into Arsenal. Too entrenched in the notion of playing football in a certain way which is fine when you happen to be winning but if you aren't then it makes you look like Arsenal who for about 15 years seem more bothered about winning the imaginary cup for attacking football than winning trophies.

 

[leewill31]

There wasn't too much wrong with the set up yesterday as the second half showed. They didn't run through us or rout us. We lost due to a shite free kick and a great cross and header.

i had this yesterday with some scouse friends liverpool were in no way playing well at all the fact our front 3-4 were lackluster at best was the reason we lost cant blame Pep for players form...

 

[blueinsa]

Sadly, for some posters Aguero is becoming the new Hart.

In the same way that Pep is the new Pellegrini?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You left out 11/12

Updated now.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Liverpool didn't have any shots on target! They had one chance and scored it, lady luck was shining for them, I'm guessing there's very few games, if any, where a team that hasn't mustered a shot on target has won a game but they did. That's football.

No one here is claiming it was a vintage performance but before the game we were being told Liverpool were going to blow us away with the famous anfield crowd behind them

They didn't, they got one goal with their first attempt, and then defended like Burnley might to hold onto the lead - and this is one of the allegedly top clubs in the premier league, not daring, or not able to go toe to toe with us.

I think they did go toe to toe with us. They took all three points and are now 4 points ahead of us. Going toe to toe (in my book) means being to be competitive with us, and they were. We have to stop thinking they were lucky, Chelsea were lucky, or we 'bossed' the game...
They took all three points. Ultimately, that's the entire point of the game.

For quite a few years now, we've all seen Arsenal play lovely football, but where's it got them? 3 points is most important, if you can get them 'in style' then great, but first and foremost, if we want to win more titles, winning comes first.

Fair play to Liverpool - I think they deserved the win. Had a chance, took it, and kept their lead. They have smiles on their faces, and we're looking over our shoulders.