Liverpool - post match thread.

[Mr HJ]

I'm not sure I agree with those saying Sergio needs to change, watching Kane's goals today you can't help but notice the quality of balls into the box - Sergio rarely gets the early ball in and therefore is having to make too many runs - he thrives on getting across the defenders in the box yet we get it wide then come inside then go back out again - no wonder he's cuts a frustrated figure. Yaya 3 years ago played so many more forward passes and having no fullback capable of getting to the byline limits our threat further.

As against Leicester you cannot gift early goals to any team and expect to win. For 7 mins yesterday it looked promising then one moment of abject defending and the whole team looked shot of confidence - it took until 50 mins for us to get going again. Surely we shouldn't be that fragile? Watching the game on now and seeing Trippier and Rose offer so much both going forward with end product is particularly galling given we have to endure the Serbian fraud strutting about. Fullbacks are vital in Pep's method, yet we have ended up with four that would struggle to get into any of the top six starting 11. Whose fault is it? Pep seems reluctant to trust any of our EDS defenders, TB has failed to identify a single decent fullback in 10 windows, The Chairman for sanctioning 100m on failed centre backs yet not questioning the reliance on four fullbacks the wrong side of 30? It's baffling to me.

We argue and debate on these forums because one way or another we care deeply about what happens on the pitch. Glass tunnels, match day experiences, decadent hospitality is all well and good, but in the end we all want the same thing - the team to play with flair and intensity. Pep has a bigger job on his hands than most imagined and I just hope he rolls his sleeves up and replaces the ageing core group asap.

 

[Chi-town blues]

That'd be great, except neither their manager, nor the players that spoke after the game agree with it, it wasn't their plan, they just adapted as the game went on, something we failed to do.

It was strange to see dippers not pressing our back four as much as they usually do to every team they play. They were more concerned about our passing lane than their own game right from the start. Klopp admitted per game that they would cut out our passing lane and that is exactly what they did from the get go.

 

[St.Pauli support]

Agreed,but zab is more attack minded hence why pep picks him ahead of sagna kolarov can't defend but is again attack minded doesn't make it right but it's his decision and the buck stops with him ..

Wouldn't you agree to say Zab once WAS more attack minded? IMO he simply isn't quick and accurate enough vs top sides anymore.

Kolarov once WAS attack minded. He feels much better as a CB nowadays. As a full back he is a liability.

Still disappointed. Pep got it wrong and the players just had the attitude for a 0-0,
which it should have been if Liverpool didn't have 1 lucky moment.

Have a happy New Year all you Blues!

 

[Dax777]

Shouldn't the best manager be getting more from our players? Look what Ranieri did last year with Leicester. The very best manager's organise and motivate "lesser" players to perform to their very highest levels.

Sergio seemed "almost rewarded" with a return to Argentina after his 4 match suspension. He looked half-arsed last night and the number of times he was in an unnecessary offside position was incredibly frustrating.

Again, you could catch fire like Leicester did last year, with luck, no injuries and all time high confidence. But by and large the norm is that players win.

We haven't been clearly the best team for 3 years now, so I'm not surprised when we struggle against other equal teams.

We used to lose at Pool because Pool played up to the challenge. Yesterday we lost to a team that generally seemed are equal, and not some team playing up.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Control isn't always about who has the ball...

Imagine a cricketer... just because the bowler has the ball, doesn't mean he has the upper hand. If the batsman is a better batter than he is a bowler, it makes sense for him to bat, and let the other guy bowl.
If a team can defend very well, and they're 1-0 up, then 'controlling' the game means making the right tactical choices to influence the game in your favour.

I don't know how many times we have to have it demonstrated to us that possession isn't everything, nor does it equate to 'control'.

 

[BAB.DAB]

I hate the "Milner was deceitful" position some of our fans hold. It's so childishly self interested.

Milner would not have been sold by us. Whether he publicly stated he was leaving or not. The goal all along was to try to convince him to stay. The moment a player you want to renew his contract declines to resign, you can take that as a public declaration he is not interested in staying.

Milner has been nothing but a professional while here. Did his job, and moved on.

Scored against his former club villa whilst playing for us he did not celebrate last season at anfield scored against us he celebrated in front of us that's why he is not liked

 

[simon23]

Not suggesting it's deliberate at all. But he's the only one to blame for his ban (which can't have helped his form - although it may help later in the season as he's now had a winter break)



And I was vocal at my annoyance with him for doing so.



He did wander offside a few times when he didn't need to with his pace. One was so upsetting as he took the ball down perfectly and was only half a yard offside.

I'm not one for hyperbole so I can also understand your annoyance with those suggesting he should be sold etc but I do genuinely believe Kun will come good again.

agree with all that.....he amongst others are performing well which again suggests that it is more about the manager and what he is trying do that is the problem.....

Infact is there one player in our team that is constantly playing well......i cant thing of one as as you say Mr consistency himself (Ferna) has even been playing average in some games.......

 

[hammocity]

Like everybody on here I'm here for the lifetime.

I want Pep to succeed and still believe he will albeit not this season.

But I thought before this season and still believe now that he is not the messiah. I have seen nothing yet to change my mind that Pelli is a far far superior manager than he is. As is klopp. As is conte. As is ranieri. As is Mancini. As, dare I say it, mourinho.

He is a manager who works wonders with just the right sort of circumstances. But rest assured the chips are down right now and he doesn't look motivated or interested to improve things.

Biggest load of bollocks I've read on here for some time, ffs, Pellegrini was fucking useless after the first season, didn't give a fuck about the club's future, tactics and season plan last campaign were absolute shite. You have your opinion but you are are way to deluded to call out Pep after just 19 games.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Again, you could catch fire like Leicester did last year, with luck, no injuries and all time high confidence. But by and large the norm is that players win.

We haven't been clearly the best team for 3 years now, so I'm not surprised when we struggle against other equal teams.

We used to lose at Pool because Pool played up to the challenge. Yesterday we lost to a team that generally seemed are equal, and not some team playing up.

A manager instills confidence and resilience in a team. Of course, the players play a huge part too, but Klopp has Liverpool playing with a real verve and confidence. Good luck to him, he's a likeable manager and it seems the players want to play for him.
I can't lay all the blame at Pep's door - that would be stupid, but he certainly has to take his fair share of the criticism (as do many of the players). Nobody should be immune. In it together should mean precisely that.

 

[inbetween]

I'm amazed people blame the manager when our performance hinged on our attacking players playing well yet only Sterling offered ANYTHING going forward. Aguero may as well of not played and I don't think he should have, KDB was missing, Silva was missing for 60 minutes. Other than that though, if Yaya didn't lose the ball and Zaba had actually blocked a cross for once maybe we wouldn't of conceded. In games like that where we don't play well sometimes you need ensure you can take a 0-0 and that is why we have lost more than any in the top 6.

We can blame Pep all we want but his philisophy is to bring the ball into the final third and leave the rest up to the attacking players and once again they did not deliver. This season so far has not been defined by a poor defence it has been defined by poor attacking when it matters. Every single game except Spurs where we lost or drew you could say that we would of won had we either taken chances or turned up to create them. In the first 10 minutes they were there for the taking and well we conceded an easy goal and then there just was nothing in us, we wasted the entire half doing absolutely nothing at all.

If you look at it, what else can Pep do, he can change the tactics and do this and that but it wouldn't change the fact we were playing with 5-6 men yesterday and the rest were lost at sea. For me the reason we lose our character is simply we lack a leader. All good teams have a captain and a leader and if you think of the height of this team it occurred at the exact same time when Kompany was in his best form. We need either him back or someone to shout at the defence, shout at Sergio for being offside all the time etc etc but at the minute no-one except Pep gets involved enough in the game and our heads go down and that is that.

 

[BAB.DAB]

Not suggesting it's deliberate at all. But he's the only one to blame for his ban (which can't have helped his form - although it may help later in the season as he's now had a winter break)



And I was vocal at my annoyance with him for doing so.



He did wander offside a few times when he didn't need to with his pace. One was so upsetting as he took the ball down perfectly and was only half a yard offside.

I'm not one for hyperbole so I can also understand your annoyance with those suggesting he should be sold etc but I do genuinely believe Kun will come good again.

I hope Kun comes good again but have a feeling pep has made his mind up and Kun will be gone in the summer

 

[Blue Mooner]

Well look at last season's league table, which should help you come to terms with the notion.

Mmmm and I'll show you 90 or so other league tables which back my assertion up. Liverpool in the 80's anyone.

 

[The-Dogs-Pollocks]

Sorry, I read the last few pages only. Didn't read the whole thread.

I think our aging players are generally not as good as they used to be, but we don't want to see it yet.

Yaya (we all know he isn't as good as he once was)

Silva (Some of us realize he isn't what he used to be, others wait till he has a dominant game to supposedly rub it in our faces. Not realizing the joke is on them. Silva used to be good every game. Now he is good in every other 4th or 5th game.

Fernandihno: Yep even bMr Consistent is beginning to show his age. Energy Levels have dropped a notch.

Aguero: I am worried he has lost form, and he might have a hard time getting it back.

DeBryune: The inconsistent results are becoming worrying. But he has age in his side.

The fullbacks: All are 2 old.

The Captain: Is crocked and has been for 3

Have seen s

Angelino won't make it with us imo, I rate maffeo though

I havent seen enough of either to know. I was impressed with maffeo at the swamp and in pre-season. I dont think he would do any worse than our current fullbacks.

 

[Drubas]

I think the real problem is Pelegrini. Folks spent so much time convincing themselves he was the problem last year, that now they are confused when the team they thought was being killed by the worst manager ever, is now acting similarly under the best manager ever.

But funny enough, I think the player bashers have luckily stumbled on the truth. We don't have the best players in the league. Thus, we are not going to dominate...

When Pellars had the best players, he won the league, when Pep does too, he'll win the league. Until then, we are just a close to the top table team struggling for consistency.

Before this season started I don't think that pundits or experts saw more than one or two positions where Liverpool had more quality than Man C. City fans saw none. None.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I said to my son a couple of weeks ago that Txiki and Soriano came in determined to turn us into Barca but so far they are just turning us into Arsenal. Too entrenched in the notion of playing football in a certain way which is fine when you happen to be winning but if you aren't then it makes you look like Arsenal who for about 15 years seem more bothered about winning the imaginary cup for attacking football than winning trophies.

Spot on.

I think it's fair to say that in some people's estimation (not mine I hasten to add) Pep is bigger than the club. That's a double edged sword, one edge, we get a high profile, prestigious manager with an impressive cv, who'll bring his experience to bear and we progress as a club. The other edge, we get a high profile, prestigious manager with an impressive cv who can fuck around answerable only to himself and his backers and we watch on as his experiment runs its course, fizzles out or just is, and it goes on for however long it goes on, dependant entirely on the internal politics of the club and the largesse of the owner.

Not so much an experiment as a soap opera.

 

[Dax777]

Scored against his former club villa whilst playing for us he did not celebrate last season at anfield scored against us he celebrated in front of us that's why he is not liked

Yes, you can choose not to like him, and I sense he didn't particularly like his time here either. But he wasn't deceitful or did anything wrong while here.

The truth is at Villa and Pool he had more value. Vice Captain, Penalty taker, important player, but while here he was a disposable utility player. I'm.not surprised he didn't like his time here.

I've had jobs where I wasn't valued, and I hated them too.

 

[cleavers]

It was strange to see dippers not pressing our back four as much as they usually do to every team they play. They were more concerned about our passing lane than their own game right from the start. Klopp admitted per game that they would cut out our passing lane and that is exactly what they did from the get go.

They actually started very poorly, then got lucky by scoring, and then adapted what they were doing. I don't know what you mean by "our passing lane" or where exactly it is, but what they did was pretty much what most teams do, they went into parked bus mode, hoping to catch us when we eventually gave the ball away, which we did with annoying regularity. They only changed after they got in front, but was facilitated it by constantly playing in front of their 10 outfield players, and being slow as f*ck whenever we had a chance to break, so that any chink in the wall was filled before we could breach it.

I'll credit Klopp with adapting to what happened, but it wasn't their game plan, and he said as much.

 

[Brendan110_0]

Squad is deficient in a few areas, primarily GK that can stop shots - has Bravo saved us one point this season? Hart would've won us 6 at least by now :( Fed up of the guy not launching himself sideways to save the ball. Aguero is still missing a top quality strike partner - not really fixed since Tevez/Dzeko/Negredo left. Can't see us winning the league so winning the CL should be priority over league and domestic cups.

 

[Dax777]

Before this season started I don't think that pundits or experts saw more than one or two positions where Liverpool had more quality than Man C. City fans saw none. None.

You should talk to the right fans. Some of us take a blue lenses off every now and then.

 

[flb]

Liverpool didn't have any shots on target! They had one chance and scored it, lady luck was shining for them, I'm guessing there's very few games, if any, where a team that hasn't mustered a shot on target has won a game but they did. That's football.

No one here is claiming it was a vintage performance but before the game we were being told Liverpool were going to blow us away with the famous anfield crowd behind them

They didn't, they got one goal with their first attempt, and then defended like Burnley might to hold onto the lead - and this is one of the allegedly top clubs in the premier league, not daring, or not able to go toe to toe with us.

Did you miss the Firmino chance when Milner put a ball through our gaping fullbacks ? We were lucky he miscontrolled it, or the 2 on 1 break where there was a marginal offside decision ?

If we had been three down at half time we would have no cause for complaint.

We were shit in attack yet again - stroking it round the defence and midfield pass pass fucking pass with no end product.