Liverpool - post match thread.

FanchesterCity said:
He was born into football as a player, he was 100 rungs up the ladder already by the time he retired as a player. That is the case with countless manager - Koeman, Gullt, Dalglish, Mancini, and so many others... the average Joe in the street is unlikely to ever hope to manage the clubs they have, but it doesn't make them less knowledgeable. It's one of the huge myths of 'great managers' that somehow they are Gods. It's complete bollocks, Ex-players who often did a very good job at a very good club. But they aren't geniuses. They just aren't. Oh, and they all get sacked too. Guardiiola will eventually.
Nobody can deny what he's achieved, but he didn't start at the bottom rung. That's the point. Just because he's Pep doesn't mean he knows more. It doesn't mean a guy in the stands can't see something Pep can't. Some people have been watching this game for 60 years and seen it all come and go - they aren't idiots.
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This.

Good post.
 
remember arthur mann said:
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The answer is no I'm not !
 
we need that magic dust sprinkling over us again

something needs to happen a big signing maybe Gabriel Jesus could be that key but i don't think we will see it to next season the club needs a big lift on the field right now
at the moment we sit 5th and chelsea running away with it even the scum are right behind us and inform and on a good run this could start to get ugly
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I usually think it is too easy for fans to say players aren't arsed or don't try, it isn't something I tend to do (I much prefer to blame a manager if I'm being honest). But, we all know that Pep's way requires exceptional intensity particularly when not in possession otherwise the whole thing is likely to unravel and it is definitely reasonable to ask whether the players we have are either able or inclined to put in those extra yards. For me the players did put in those extra efforts that are required for the first couple of months and by and large haven't in the last couple of months. Someone like Silva was working like a bastard to win the ball back from the very first minute of matches for a while, now he is doing it for the odd spell here and there but by and large for me has just gone back to the Silva of previous years who didn't press especially well. The reality is that if we are going to play with a high line then if every one of those front players doesn't work their balls off to press from the very first minute then we are going to be horribly exposed to shitty counter attack goals where the opposition have to do virtually nothing to earn their goals. That second half against Arsenal, the main difference for me was that we started pressing properly and winning the ball in their half like we did in most matches in August/September. It changes absolutely everything for us and I don't really know why we only do it for the odd half in the odd match these days (usually at the point where the shit appears to be hitting the fan). Makes me think some players are choosing when they can be bothered carrying out one of the fundamentals of our system. If they are physically not up to it and were already knackered by October/November then fair enough but still worrying, if it is a choice to not press then that's not on.
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Pretty much agree with all of that. Of course, if players are choosing not to carry out the manager's instructions to press then that's bang out of order. I have another theory and that is that it takes time for them to adapt to an incessant pressing game and eventually we'll become more consistent at it, although some players who can't adapt will need to be jettisoned along the way and that may include some very high profile casualties.

It could be argued that the season has panned out so far in completely the opposite way to what many of us expected - instead of a slow start followed by better results and performances, we hit the ground running and have tailed off somewhat. However, this is very similar to how it went for Liverpool under Klopp last season - they play a similar pressing game to us and were almost instantly smashing teams but then there was a drop off in results and they only finished 8th. However, with a couple of transfer windows and a pre-season they look far more consistent this season.
 
Beating Burnley will be a tough ask. They will come for a draw at best and just pump the ball into our box waiting for our keystone cop defence to fail yet again.
We are struggling in 5th with the rag cnuts just behind us. Never thought I would see that at the start of the season.
 
rnblade said:
Beating Burnley will be a tough ask. They will come for a draw at best and just pump the ball into our box waiting for our keystone cop defence to fail yet again.
We are struggling in 5th with the rag cnuts just behind us. Never thought I would see that at the start of the season.
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I actually don't think it will be tough. A fairly straightforward 2 or 3 nil win would be my guess. Burnley are awful away from home.
 
M18CTID said:
Pretty much agree with all of that. Of course, if players are choosing not to carry out the manager's instructions to press then that's bang out of order. I have another theory and that is that it takes time for them to adapt to an incessant pressing game and eventually we'll become more consistent at it, although some players who can't adapt will need to be jettisoned along the way and that may include some very high profile casualties.

It could be argued that the season has panned out so far in completely the opposite way to what many of us expected - instead of a slow start followed by better results and performances, we hit the ground running and have tailed off somewhat. However, this is very similar to how it went for Liverpool under Klopp last season - they play a similar pressing game to us and were almost instantly smashing teams but then there was a drop off in results and they only finished 8th. However, with a couple of transfer windows and a pre-season they look far more consistent this season.
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Biggest reason we aren't very adept at the pressing game is that we don't have enough players with the fitness to carry it out.

Too many "slow" players.
 
Rammy Blue said:
Biggest reason we aren't very adept at the pressing game is that we don't have enough players with the fitness to carry it out.

Too many "slow" players.
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Yeah, that's a good point. I look at Liverpool and I think Klopp inherited more players from Rodgers that are better suited to his pressing game than Pep inherited when he took over us.
 
I just wanted to point out that Sergio missed 7 games , which really should only have been 3.
A totally ridiculous violent conduct charge was upheld by the FA. (Other players have done far, far worse and received no sanction)
giving him a 3 match ban.
Then the idiotic action on Luiz borne out of frustration, which would have been a 3 match ban, except for the fact that it was a repeat offence, which increasedit to 4 games.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Haha! Very true.

Also, I've never heard of anyone getting banned from Bluemoon for whingring. Being too positive carries a greater risk of getting an early bath.

Ps: inwill be drinking near Liverpool St on Friday so might see you there.
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Nice one mate - should be there for 3-ish. Not sure what boozer yet but will PM you on here. You stopping over the night?
 
Rammy Blue said:
Biggest reason we aren't very adept at the pressing game is that we don't have enough players with the fitness to carry it out.

Too many "slow" players.
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Stamina is required to close down, not sprinting. And collective teamwork. And I think we are good at closing teams down. We did it really well against Arsenal, and at Anfield. Also against Barcelona. they created very little. We lost the ball repeatedly in advanced positions but won it back quickly. Massive improvement in that regard compared to last season. Last season we did not press as a team. This season its one of the hallmarks of our team. It's one on one defending that lets us down. Players like Stones not sensing danger, and Kolarov and especially Zabaleta getting skinned one on one.
 
Blue Mooner said:
So you see control as the team that wins the match. We will have to agree to disagree then as your definition of control seems largely dictated by the result. Again Liverpool's manager stated that their defensive performance was not a tactic.

Had Everton won against us at the Etihad after being one nil up would you have argued they controlled the game?

Granted we didn't threaten Liverpool much but I would certainly not argue on the balance of play that they controlled the game.
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No, I didn't say it's who wins the game... but it's a team that influences the game in their favour in order to win. I didn't see that from City. I thought Liverpool adapted to going 1-0 up and thus 'controlled' the game more than we did. They didn't adopt their usual style of all guns blazing, they reduced their attack in order the maintain a lead - and I see that as controlling the game, better, or at the very least as well as we did.
My argument is that having possession is not the same as controlling the game. Controlling is more complex and subtle than 'who has the ball'. For me, football is just as much about defending as attacking, and just as much about tactics too. Overall, they had a chance, took it, and defended it. 3 points to them. It's very hard to reconcile the notion of us 'controlling' the game when we come away with no points. It feels like saying 'I controlled the car and crashed it'. If we did 'control' it, then we certainly didn't control it very well.

It's semantics really, I just don't believe having possession means you deserve to win, or that it means you controlled the game - it just means you played attack, and they played defence. at any point in time, 21 players in the game do not have the ball.
 
M18CTID said:
Nice one mate - should be there for 3-ish. Not sure what boozer yet but will PM you on here. You stopping over the night?
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Yes staying at the IBIS in Stratford thanks. Gonna go to the Wetherspoons just outside Liverpool St. Station for starters. Should be there for 4.30ish. Mate works round there and knows some other pubs but the Spoons is a decent one.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Yes staying at the IBIS in Stratford thanks. Gonna go to the Wetherspoons just outside Liverpool St. Station for starters. Should be there for 4.30ish. Mate works round there and knows some other pubs but the Spoons is a decent one.
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Ok, nice one - I'm in the Premier Inn, Stratford. Will head for the Spoons - should be there a good while before 4.30. Not sure what I'm doing after the game but noticed a couple of places around Liverpool St should be open into the early hours.
 
bondsman said:
Get the ball to him in the box and he will do his job as he always has.
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Last night he didn't touch the ball in the box, so is that everyone else's fault or Sergio's ?

I'm not trying to be difficult either, its because he wasn't available most of the time (often offside so couldn't be used when we had the ball).
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Yes staying at the IBIS in Stratford thanks. Gonna go to the Wetherspoons just outside Liverpool St. Station for starters. Should be there for 4.30ish. Mate works round there and knows some other pubs but the Spoons is a decent one.
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Get to the Water Poet on Folgate Street. Then there's a few down Commercial St but the Ten Bells is good.
 
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