M
M
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Liverpool Thread 2012/13
- Thread starter Mad Eyed Screamer
- Start date
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
The thing about Moneyball is that it says that you can get over the player you maybe should have signed and didn't but you can't recover from signing a player or players you shouldn't have signed and did.
Also Boston Red Sox fans are up in arms as they are one of the bottom teams in the American League this season.
Also Boston Red Sox fans are up in arms as they are one of the bottom teams in the American League this season.
Prestwich_Blue said:The thing about Moneyball is that it says that you can get over the player you maybe should have signed and didn't but you can't recover from signing a player or players you shouldn't have signed and did.
Also Boston Red Sox fans are up in arms as they are one of the bottom teams in the American League this season.
I detect a connection there..;)
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
From a Red Sox forum:samharris said:Prestwich_Blue said:The thing about Moneyball is that it says that you can get over the player you maybe should have signed and didn't but you can't recover from signing a player or players you shouldn't have signed and did.
Also Boston Red Sox fans are up in arms as they are one of the bottom teams in the American League this season.
I detect a connection there..;)
The Red Sox have been badly mismanaged the last few years in the front office. Their biggest problem isn't beer and chicken--or the clubhouse media soapsuds. Their problem was their huge payroll, filled with humungous long term contracts to players not producing anywhere near their salaries.
Well, along came their savior, the LA Dodgers, who were looking to spend on stars in a big way. Henry took care of their problem in about 10 minutes meeting with Kasten, the Dodger President, who will be known in the future as the guy who bailed out the Red Sox.
But the Red sox are not out of the woods yet. After all, pretty much the same cast and crew who spent like drunken sailors are being asked to rebuild the team. Risky business, Mr Henry.
Prestwich_Blue said:The thing about Moneyball is that it says that you can get over the player you maybe should have signed and didn't but you can't recover from signing a player or players you shouldn't have signed and did.
Also Boston Red Sox fans are up in arms as they are one of the bottom teams in the American League this season.
The moneyball system is basically a scouting system for cheapskates. A senior analyst, a couple of juniors, several video analyst and 2-3 scouts maximum. Its been reasonably productive in the limited variables of baseball, but is woefully adequate in football as means to unearth bargains. The problem is that the Yanks that have come over here, on the whole, are spivs. They have come to asset strip, utilize the cash transaction element and the superb appeal of the EPL. I hope they all leave, with their tales between their collective legs. They act in the same way in the states, but the unique structure and unchallenged prowess of the MLB and NFL, can't be replicated here, or in any other football league. The EPL is the place to be and always will be, but we could do with out the yank scum bags. I know he's Canadian, but why isn't Bill Gates interested? Probably because he has "Real Money" and not some middleman shyster.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Roughly translated into plain English to me that reads:halfcenturyup said:Oh dear ......
John W Henry's open letter to Liverpool supporters
John W Henry, Liverpool's principal owner, has written an open letter to supporters of the club.
In it, he:
Addresses the club's inability to sign a striker
Insists the current owners are committed to the club
Assures fans there is a clear vision
Backs manager Brendan Rodgers
Claims the owners are still trying to reverse past mistakes
Admits the current regime has made mistakes
Reveals the club is focused on developing its own talent
Adds it will not waste money on transfer fees and wages
Says the aim is winning the Premier League
Read the complete letter below:
"I am as disappointed as anyone connected with Liverpool Football Club that we were unable to add further to our strike force in this summer transfer window, but that was not through any lack of desire or effort on the part of all of those involved.
"They pushed hard in the final days of the transfer window on a number of forward targets and it is unfortunate that on this occasion we were unable to conclude acceptable deals to bring those targets in.
"But a summer window which brought in three young but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future - Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi - could hardly be deemed a failure as we build for the future.
"Nor should anyone minimise the importance of keeping our best players during this window. We successfully retained Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel and Luis Suarez. We greatly appreciate their faith and belief in the club. And we successfully negotiated new, long-term contracts with Luis and with Martin.
"No-one should doubt our commitment to the club. In Brendan Rodgers, we have a talented young manager and we have valued highly his judgement about the make-up of the squad. This is a work in progress. It will take time for Brendan to instil his philosophy into the squad and build exactly what he needs for the long term.
"The transfer policy was not about cutting costs. It was - and will be in the future - about getting maximum value for what is spent so that we can build quality and depth.
"We are avowed proponents of Uefa's Financial Fair Play agenda that was this week reiterated by Mr Platini - something we heartily applaud.
"We must comply with Financial Fair Play guidelines that ensure spending is tied to income. We have been successful in improving the commercial side of the club and the monies generated going forward will give us greater spending power in the coming years.
"We are still in the process of reversing the errors of previous regimes. It will not happen overnight.
"It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership. It has been a harsh education, but, make no mistake, the club is healthier today than when we took over.
"Spending is not merely about buying talent. Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years.
"Our emphasis will be on developing our own players using the skills of an increasingly impressive coaching team. Much thought and investment already have gone into developing a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions.
"That ethos is to win. We will invest to succeed. But we will not mortgage the future with risky spending. After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place.
"The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again. We are looking at the next 16 years and beyond. These are the first steps in restoring one of the world's great clubs to its proper status.
"It will not be easy, it will not be perfect, but there is a clear vision at work.
"We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players.
"We will never place this club in the precarious position that we found it in when we took over at Anfield. This club should never again run up debts that threaten its existence.
"Most of all, we want to win. That ambition drives every decision. It is the Liverpool way. We can and will generate the revenues to achieve that aim. There will be short-term setbacks from time to time, but we believe we have the right people in place to bring more glory to Anfield.
"Finally, I can say with authority that our ownership is not about profit.
"Contrary to popular opinion, owners rarely get involved in sports in order to generate cash. They generally get involved with a club in order to compete and work for the benefit of their club. It's often difficult.
"In our case, we work every day in order to generate revenues to improve the club. We have only one driving ambition at Liverpool and that is the quest to win the Premier League playing the kind of football our supporters want to see.
"That will only occur if we do absolutely the right things to build the club in a way that makes sense for supporters, for us and for those who will follow us.
"We will deliver what every long-term supporter of Liverpool Football Club aches for."
JOHN W HENRY
"When we came in a couple of years ago we assumed that we, as successful owners of American Franchises, would be able to walk in and use our experience to clean up in European football. We did that because we thought, looking from the outside, that we would be able to teach your clubs a thing or two about how to turn a quick buck.
It would appear that we have totally overestimated our own worth and underestimated the task of the job at hand. We are not, however, going away. We have also come to realise that the Premier League is (and will be) the biggest sports affiliation on the planet and we believe with a brand like LFC we can share all the reflected glory that will go hand in hand with the Premier League's enduring success.
That is why FSG support FFP. Because it will give us a competitive advantage due to our support base in Asia, whilst enabling us to simultaneously contain costs
We've come to realise that whilst we are not able to sit at the top table at the big party we are more than happy with a table next to the toilets if it means our financial enrichment to the extent we expect.
To this end we'll keep talking about our "long term vision" and "sustainability" not because we especially believe in them per se but more because it suits the strategic financial aims for our investment"
gordondaviesmoustache said:Roughly translated into plain English to me that reads:halfcenturyup said:Oh dear ......
John W Henry's open letter to Liverpool supporters
John W Henry, Liverpool's principal owner, has written an open letter to supporters of the club.
In it, he:
Addresses the club's inability to sign a striker
Insists the current owners are committed to the club
Assures fans there is a clear vision
Backs manager Brendan Rodgers
Claims the owners are still trying to reverse past mistakes
Admits the current regime has made mistakes
Reveals the club is focused on developing its own talent
Adds it will not waste money on transfer fees and wages
Says the aim is winning the Premier League
Read the complete letter below:
"I am as disappointed as anyone connected with Liverpool Football Club that we were unable to add further to our strike force in this summer transfer window, but that was not through any lack of desire or effort on the part of all of those involved.
"They pushed hard in the final days of the transfer window on a number of forward targets and it is unfortunate that on this occasion we were unable to conclude acceptable deals to bring those targets in.
"But a summer window which brought in three young but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future - Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi - could hardly be deemed a failure as we build for the future.
"Nor should anyone minimise the importance of keeping our best players during this window. We successfully retained Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel and Luis Suarez. We greatly appreciate their faith and belief in the club. And we successfully negotiated new, long-term contracts with Luis and with Martin.
"No-one should doubt our commitment to the club. In Brendan Rodgers, we have a talented young manager and we have valued highly his judgement about the make-up of the squad. This is a work in progress. It will take time for Brendan to instil his philosophy into the squad and build exactly what he needs for the long term.
"The transfer policy was not about cutting costs. It was - and will be in the future - about getting maximum value for what is spent so that we can build quality and depth.
"We are avowed proponents of Uefa's Financial Fair Play agenda that was this week reiterated by Mr Platini - something we heartily applaud.
"We must comply with Financial Fair Play guidelines that ensure spending is tied to income. We have been successful in improving the commercial side of the club and the monies generated going forward will give us greater spending power in the coming years.
"We are still in the process of reversing the errors of previous regimes. It will not happen overnight.
"It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership. It has been a harsh education, but, make no mistake, the club is healthier today than when we took over.
"Spending is not merely about buying talent. Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years.
"Our emphasis will be on developing our own players using the skills of an increasingly impressive coaching team. Much thought and investment already have gone into developing a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions.
"That ethos is to win. We will invest to succeed. But we will not mortgage the future with risky spending. After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place.
"The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again. We are looking at the next 16 years and beyond. These are the first steps in restoring one of the world's great clubs to its proper status.
"It will not be easy, it will not be perfect, but there is a clear vision at work.
"We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players.
"We will never place this club in the precarious position that we found it in when we took over at Anfield. This club should never again run up debts that threaten its existence.
"Most of all, we want to win. That ambition drives every decision. It is the Liverpool way. We can and will generate the revenues to achieve that aim. There will be short-term setbacks from time to time, but we believe we have the right people in place to bring more glory to Anfield.
"Finally, I can say with authority that our ownership is not about profit.
"Contrary to popular opinion, owners rarely get involved in sports in order to generate cash. They generally get involved with a club in order to compete and work for the benefit of their club. It's often difficult.
"In our case, we work every day in order to generate revenues to improve the club. We have only one driving ambition at Liverpool and that is the quest to win the Premier League playing the kind of football our supporters want to see.
"That will only occur if we do absolutely the right things to build the club in a way that makes sense for supporters, for us and for those who will follow us.
"We will deliver what every long-term supporter of Liverpool Football Club aches for."
JOHN W HENRY
"When we came in a couple of years ago we assumed that we, as successful owners of American Franchises, would be able to walk in and use our experience to clean up in European football. We did that because we thought, looking from the outside, that we would be able to teach your clubs a thing or two about how to turn a quick buck.
It would appear that we have totally overestimated our own worth and underestimated the task of the job at hand. We are not, however, going away. We have also come to realise that the Premier League is (and will be) the biggest sports affiliation on the planet and we believe with a brand like LFC we can share all the reflected glory that will go hand in hand with the Premier League's enduring success.
That is why FSG support FFP. Because it will give us a competitive advantage due to our support base in Asia, whilst enabling us to simultaneously contain costs
We've come to realise that whilst we are not able to sit at the top table at the big party we are more than happy with a table next to the toilets if it means our financial enrichment to the extent we expect.
To this end we'll keep talking about our "long term vision" and "sustainability" not because we especially believe in them per se but more because it suits the strategic financial aims for our investment"
I can't believe anyone thought they would be any better for the dippers than Gillette & Hicks. They are all here to milk the EPL dry and to that end, should be treated with the utter contempt they deserve.
I think FSG are better that H&G for that matter , it's not like we are not spending money , we spent £120m last summer and despite not being in champions league spent £27m this summer , not at all bad for a club not in champions league for three years
It's just that we overpayed by around £60m last summer , so it was always going to bite us in our asses this time
And i don't believe buying dempsey would have affected our medium-long term future in any way , in short term till january? Yes , but we will but player's in january<br /><br />-- Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:22 pm --<br /><br />Red sox did a very , very good job getting contracts worth $270m off their wage bills , those players except maybe gonzales where not the same or worth that money now , this gives red sox a platform , to invest again , they can now atleast flex their arms again , those player's were not performing anyway , it meant a huge loss in next 5-7 years , a good deal from red sox i think
It's just that we overpayed by around £60m last summer , so it was always going to bite us in our asses this time
And i don't believe buying dempsey would have affected our medium-long term future in any way , in short term till january? Yes , but we will but player's in january<br /><br />-- Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:22 pm --<br /><br />Red sox did a very , very good job getting contracts worth $270m off their wage bills , those players except maybe gonzales where not the same or worth that money now , this gives red sox a platform , to invest again , they can now atleast flex their arms again , those player's were not performing anyway , it meant a huge loss in next 5-7 years , a good deal from red sox i think
Matty
Well-Known Member
It's not just overspending. People have accused City of overspending, and in some instances they are certainly correct to do so, but at least we've overspent on players who ultimately (although there are some exceptions) are of a sufficiently high enough calibre to move the club forwards. Liverpool spent big (or relatively big) on Andy Carroll, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson, Louis Suarez, Stuart Downing, Jose Enrique, Fabio Borini and Joe Allen. Of those, 4 have proven to be too much money, and have fallen well below expectations (Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing), 2 are as yet unproven in terms of value for money (Allen looks like he might be worth the cash but I'll eat my own faeces if Borini isn't a failure at £10m) and 2 have been successful to a degree (Enrique looks good enough, if not spectacular, Suarez is an excellent player but simply isn't a natural goalscorer and won't get Liverpool the goals they need, it's just not in his makeup). Dalglish, as much as Liverpudlians adore him, really screwed Liverpool by spending a massive chunk of their available funds and leaving the squad packed out with mediocrity.44% said:I think FSG are better that H&G for that matter , it's not like we are not spending money , we spent £120m last summer and despite not being in champions league spent £27m this summer , not at all bad for a club not in champions league for three years
It's just that we overpayed by around £60m last summer , so it was always going to bite us in our asses this time
And i don't believe buying dempsey would have affected our medium-long term future in any way , in short term till january? Yes , but we will but player's in january
44% said:I think FSG are better that H&G for that matter , it's not like we are not spending money , we spent £120m last summer and despite not being in champions league spent £27m this summer , not at all bad for a club not in champions league for three years
It's just that we overpayed by around £60m last summer , so it was always going to bite us in our asses this time
And i don't believe buying dempsey would have affected our medium-long term future in any way , in short term till january? Yes , but we will but player's in january
-- Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:22 pm --
Red sox did a very , very good job getting contracts worth $270m off their wage bills , those players except maybe gonzales where not the same or worth that money now , this gives red sox a platform , to invest again , they can now atleast flex their arms again , those player's were not performing anyway , it meant a huge loss in next 5-7 years , a good deal from red sox i think
I'm not writing to be flippant, but G&H really backed Rafa and but for a couple of dickrisculas performances, you would have 19 titles and would still be top 4. the rug was pulled on them and Henry & Co, were gifted the club in a dubious, dodgy handshake deal by the arsehole of all banks Barclay's. I hate what Henry's crew stand for and the Glaziers, we must thank are luck stars that we got an owner, who's knows that a world class club brings immeasurable prestige, not immeasurable profit!